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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,819 |
| Posted: | | | | As some of you may know I have recently stopped contributing to existing profiles.
One of the reasons is that I want to be able to add Visual Effects Houses (Companies) to the Crew list in the form of dividers, eg:
Effects by Industrial Light & Magic XXXX Visual Effects Supervisor XXXX Special Effects Supervisor XXXX Digital Effects
and so on....
I think it makes the data more meaningful. I am not advocating making the Art section any longer than it already is - simply requesting a feature to make what we can already add more relevant.
I know some people think this is a good idea so I thought I'd start a poll.
I would like to point out that it will then be possible for anyone who doesn't want the dividers to simply remove them. |
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Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | I was actually thinking about this, but couldn't find your other thread to post in it. Would a divider containing (in your example) "Effects by Industrial Light & Magic" be a breach of the rules as they currently stand? The rules give us very little guidance about the use of dividers, but I've always thought they were to be used to separate different credit lists from each other. In your case, you have a group of FX credits separated from the rest of the crew credits by the use of a header: Effects by ILM It's possible, sometimes even likely, that there are other companies involved and so using your example you could have:
Divider: Effects by Industrial Light & Magic XXXX Visual Effects Supervisor XXXX Special Effects Supervisor XXXX Digital Effects
Divider: Effects by Weta XXXX Visual Effects Supervisor XXXX Special Effects Supervisor XXXX Digital Effects
So to me, they are separate crew lists, and separating them with a divider seems perfectly logical. And again, there is no restriction on the contents of a divider in this situation so mentioning a company name seems fine.
So maybe all we need is a tidying up of the rules, making this explicitly allowable, but to be honest I can't see a rule that currently specifically prohibits this. |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Ummmm
"List individual credits only, not company name credits."
To be honest I am undecided on this at the moment. But the current Rule is pretty clear.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
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Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | That only refers to credits, not dividers. A divider isn't a credit. | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Give me a break. More spinning and pretzelizing. They most certainly are a credit, they are listed within the credits of the film or they aren't. The current Rule is very clear and definitive. Comments like above tend to turn me against the concept. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
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Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | So "20th Anniversary Edition" is a credit? "Episode 1" is a credit? They're not credits because nobody is credited with anything! (see, I know where the rolleyes emoticon is too ) |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,819 |
| Posted: | | | | I actually was leaning towards northbloke's view on dividers myself.
However, I do feel that the rules are rather ambiguous - therefore I err on the side of caution and interpreted the rules the way Skip has.
So.... What's better? This:
Nathalie Tissier - Make-up Artist Chas Jarret - Visual Effects Matt Hicks - Visual Effects Greg Butler - Visual Effects Nicolas Aithadi - Visual Effects Jon Thum - Visual Effects Ben Morris - Visual Effects Sue Rowe - Visual Effects Simon Stanley-Clamp - Visual Effects Mark Forker - Visual Effects Todd Isrolet - Visual Effects Serge Srcheinsky - Visual Effects
OR This: Nathalie Tissier - Make-up Artist
EFFECTS by MOVING PICTURE COMPANY Chas Jarret - Visual Effects Matt Hicks - Visual Effects Greg Butler - Visual Effects Nicolas Aithadi - Visual Effects
EFFECTS by FRAMESTORE Jon Thum - Visual Effects Ben Morris - Visual Effects
EFFECTS by CINESITE Sue Rowe - Visual Effects Simon Stanley-Clamp - Visual Effects John Roberts-Cox - Visual Effects
EFFECTS by DIGITAL DOMAIN Mark Forker - Visual Effects Todd Isrolet - Visual Effects Serge Srcheinsky - Visual Effects
While it is still not possible to contribute the customisable Crew Roles (which make this info even more relevant) I still prefer the 2nd option to the existing rules option of a single long list.
At the very least you can see that multiple effects houses worked on a given film. |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,819 |
| Posted: | | | | Given that I'm not contrubiting any of this information I am curious about the reasons behind the NO votes.
I really would like to know what the negatives are of allowing these dividers? Maybe I'm missing something. |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,197 |
| Posted: | | | | My no vote is because currently you can't cross-link a divider, which makes it useless for looking up all the ILM credits for example.
But I guess "don't care" would be more appropriate, but missing from the options. | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 | | | Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth |
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Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | You see, that looks good to me. Everyone gets their credit, but they are organised and separated so the information becomes readable and more useful.
I recently submitted some crew changes to Sleepy Hollow and I have to admit part way through the end credits I simply gave up on listing the visual effects credits because there were so many of them and the list was becoming so long and meaningless.
Looking at that I might go back and see what it looks like if I add in the company dividers as per your idea. |
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Registered: July 31, 2008 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,506 |
| Posted: | | | | Although I don't enter crew credits myself, I can see why allowing this would make things look tidier, so it gets a yes from me. |
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Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Patsa: Quote: My no vote is because currently you can't cross-link a divider, which makes it useless for looking up all the ILM credits for example. That, to me, doesn't make sense. You can't currently cross-link the data, so you'd rather not have the data there at all? I'd rather have the data there so at some point cross-linking may be introduced. edit: just seen your edit. I guess if it's data that doesn't interest you, I think it's fair not to expect you to say "yes" to it. | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
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Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | Pantheon, have you done this already to any of your titles? It might be helpful in the debate if you could actually point to a specific title so we can see an example at work. Edit: would have been useful if I'd bothered to check if you had your collection online or not... If I get the time I'll do it to one of mine. | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote: Pantheon, have you done this already to any of your titles? It might be helpful in the debate if you could actually point to a specific title so we can see an example at work. Yes he has...he posted this in his other thread. Quoting Pantheon: Quote: Have a look at my online collection (and find Charlie and the Chocolate Factory) to see what I mean. Here: http://www.invelos.com/DVDCollection.aspx/Pantheon I like it...the word wrapping could be handled better...but, other than that I like it as it makes the data more meaningful. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,245 |
| Posted: | | | | I like the idea.
About the only problem I can see is how to handle when a film is updated with new visual effects.
I'm not too sure, but perhaps one of the Star Wars movies has ILM credited with doing the effects for the original version and then again for the Special Editions.
The crew currently has a divider for the Special Edition crew. So if ILM is indeed credited for both versions, then the profile would have 3 dividers. 1. for ILM effects in the original film. 2. another divider for the Special Edition crew. 3. And then another for ILM for their VE work in the Special Edition. |
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Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | Thanks for that Unicus, because he didn't have the icon on his posts I assumed he hadn't made his collection public. I think it looks great - very tidy and organised and legible. Just to give people an idea, this is what the same Art section would look like without dividers:
Art: Nick Davis: Visual Effects Supervisor Gabriella Pescucci: Costume Designer Alex McDowell: Production Designer Joss Williams: Special Effects Supervisor Peter Owen: Make-up Designer Leslie Tomkins: Supervising Art Director Kevin Phipps: Senior Art Director David Allday: Art Director Matthew Gray: Art Director Sean Haworth: Art Director James Lewis: Art Director Andrew Nicholson: Art Director Francois Audouy: Art Director Ivana Primorac: Key Make-up Artist Julie Dartnell: Make-up Artist John Munro: Make-up Artist Abi Brotherton: Make-up Artist Julie Thom: Make-up Artist Karen Cohen: Make-up Artist Cathy Burzack: Make-up Artist Nathalie Tissier: Mr. Depp's Make-up Chas Jarrett: Visual Effects Supervisor Matt Hicks: CG Supervisor Greg Butler: CG Supervisor Nicolas Aithadi: CG Supervisor Jon Thum: Visual Effects Supervisor Ben Morris: CG Supervisor Sue Rowe: Visual Effects Supervisor Simon Stanley-Clamp: Visual Effects Supervisor John Roberts-Cox: CG Supervisor Mark O. Forker: Visual Effects Todd Isroelit: Visual Effects Serge Sretschinsky: Visual Effects Darren M. Poe: Visual Effects Bonnie Lemon: Visual Effects Piotr Karwas: Visual Effects Matthias Wittmann: Visual Effects Paul George Palop: Visual Effects Casey Dame: Visual Effects Fin Teo: Visual Effects Yann Doray: Visual Effects Scott Edelstein: Visual Effects
That, to me, looks much worse and makes the information harder to read. @Cubby, I don't see that as a huge problem. Ideally we'd need to see it but I don't think it would look any worse that what it would look like without the extra dividers. And I don't see a problem with mentioning ILM twice if they worked on the film twice. |
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