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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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New naming system |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote: I understand that a large portion of the userbase is not American, but they purchased an American porgram. As such, they should adapt to the programs format. Are you saying that US companies (e.g. Invelos and Microsoft) should not design their programs to be used globally? |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,911 |
| Posted: | | | | No offense....
How can you compare invelos to microsoft?
WOW! | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote: Many people's names include one or more middle names, placed between the first given name and the surname. In the West, a middle name is effectively a second given name. ...
(...)
Again, this can be solved by a simple change to the rules indicating what each field means. But then not all people here do agree that last name has anything to do with surname and that first and middle name have anything to do with given names. They tell us that those names are strictly positional. So yes, I would agree that the rules should tell us what each field means. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote: Quoting Unicus69:
Quote: I understand that a large portion of the userbase is not American, but they purchased an American porgram. As such, they should adapt to the programs format. Are you saying that US companies (e.g. Invelos and Microsoft) should not design their programs to be used globally? Is this a serious question? Invelos is a single programmer that developed a program that became popular outside it's intended market. Microsoft, on the other hand, is an American multinational corporation. Not only does it market it's product to the entire world, it has offices in Asia, Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Central & South America and the south Pacific...which includes Australia and New Zealand. Are you seriously going to compare the two? As to my original point, I have already explained it twice. If you can't figure out what I meant, a third explanation isn't going to help. Quoting RHo: Quote: Quoting Unicus69:
Quote: Many people's names include one or more middle names, placed between the first given name and the surname. In the West, a middle name is effectively a second given name. ...
(...)
Again, this can be solved by a simple change to the rules indicating what each field means. But then not all people here do agree that last name has anything to do with surname and that first and middle name have anything to do with given names. They tell us that those names are strictly positional.
So yes, I would agree that the rules should tell us what each field means. I tell those people they are wrong. If they were strictly positional, there would have been no reason for Ken to include an option to sort the name field 'Last, First Middle.' I can understand why this explanation never made it into the rules but, given that some users can't seem to figure it out on their own, it should be added now. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting pdf256: Quote: Quoting skipnet50:
Quote: Unicus:
Because according to these people despite this program was developed in America, we are still a minority therefore we should bow to the cave people.
Skip, what you are missing here is that users like myself collect DVDs of films made in other places. Some of them are in languages other than English. Why should I, an 'American' user be stuck with a feature set that does not work well for Asian names. If Ken wanted to limit DVDProfiler to your beloved Hollywood, why has he added to the feature set to support other languages, etc.
By the way I also buy films made in Hollywood, after all I was born there.
Quote:
I also have collectorz, which was written in germany, I believe, and has a few peculiarities, i simply cope with them. Same is truewith several other programs i use that have origins outside the US. I don't buy products made in China, largely because I have no desire providing to a Communistic regime. I don't whine and complain about it, I simply don't do it. I won't buy a Lenovo/IBM computer--China. Again I don't whine about it, I don't try and get China to do things the way i want them to, I just refuse to support them. If you really dislike Anerican culture that much which i doubt, and if you really think your antiquated culture is so superior....
Skip It is not a matter of which culture is superior, it is one of the best way to profile DVDs. For most 'Hollywood' films entering the cast and/or crew is easy, you type in the name, there is one match, you go with it. For most Asian films, you type in the name, you get two or more matches, you then need to figure out which is the 'common name', select it and then enter the 'credited as name'. This is a lot more work then is needed for most 'Hollywood' films. With French and Spanish films you have the added problem that the actor search does not match 'e', 'è' or 'é', leading to yet more steps to match it all up.
pdf Paul: As do I, What you are missing is that you have the power to do whatever you wish LOCALLY right now. You don't have to wait for ANY kind of program update. RIGHT NOW. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
You also requested that Ken remove the 'middle name' field. Something that is cultural and would not solve the sorting problem. I requested removing middle name to reduce sparsing problems (I never told it would solve everything). I explained that, with the example of Reverends, far before someone spoke of American culture. There was nothing cultural in my request. To be precise, for years I've been criticized by some of my friends to be too much pro-american. The way some American users present here a technical problem enlightens my contradictors' opinion. | | | Images from movies |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Always nice to see I am not alone in the typo area, Be careful surfeur, the disease is very contagious. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote: Always nice to see I am not alone in the typo area, Be careful surfeur, the disease is very contagious.
Skip As for me, I would say these are spelling or grammatical mistakes. English is not my first language, and I know I'm not very good in this language. | | | Images from movies |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote: Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
You also requested that Ken remove the 'middle name' field. Something that is cultural and would not solve the sorting problem.
I requested removing middle name to reduce sparsing problems (I never told it would solve everything). I explained that, with the example of Reverends, far before someone spoke of American culture. There was nothing cultural in my request. Maybe not but you did say, "American users must undestand that "middle name" means nothing for thousands of users who do not spend their time on those forums, and who do not know how to manage it..." That sure sounds cultural to me. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 3,830 |
| Posted: | | | | your proposal solves nothing. Gong Li and Li Gong are in the credits one Westernised, the other Asian? You only have to clearify to one of the cultural groups where to put the names. There are no changes in the database that will solve this problem. All the Western Credits in the movies say Gong Li, so our database. It is only IMDB that reverses her credit: Li GongGong Li as she is credited. So why do you want to complicate matters, as you don't have any use for a middle field name, so the others who are using it have to go along with your request? Why don't you request we drop international titles for the movies and insist that only the original Eastern titles are used?: and what one should we use? Shao Lin jiang shiSiu lam geung si and that is an easy one, only 2 titles for one movie. when we go to names: Chin Ka Lok Kar Lok ChinKa-Lok ChinChin Kar LokChin Ka LokKa LokJiale QianChin Kar-LokKar Lok Chinwho would be right? | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | Last edited: by ? |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | I have no further comments to make on this topic.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 2,366 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting lmoelleb: Quote: Voice your disagreement civilized based on arguments that does not involve childish statements like "cave people", or irrelevant facts like "this is an American program". If your arguments are solid, Ken will notice and make the right decision. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 630 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote: Quoting RHo:
Quote: Quoting Unicus69:
Quote: I understand that a large portion of the userbase is not American, but they purchased an American porgram. As such, they should adapt to the programs format. Are you saying that US companies (e.g. Invelos and Microsoft) should not design their programs to be used globally?
Is this a serious question? Invelos is a single programmer that developed a program that became popular outside it's intended market.
Looks like a serious question to me. The Internet makes it pretty standard to target the entire world even for small programs. Targeting the "home" market only for a program distributed over the internet would be a rather odd choice in my opinion. But besides this: 1) How do you know what Ken's intended market was at release? Did I miss a comment somewhere? 2) Do you know what his intended market is now (as it is as such completely irrelevant what it was originally - it's what it is now that matters)? | | | Regards Lars |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote: Is this a serious question? Invelos is a single programmer that developed a program that became popular outside it's intended market.
Microsoft, on the other hand, is an American multinational corporation. Not only does it market it's product to the entire world, it has offices in Asia, Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Central & South America and the south Pacific...which includes Australia and New Zealand.
Are you seriously going to compare the two? The two are of course very different but still you can compare them. And then you have brought up the argument about the "American program". And I really doubt that the intended market for DVD Profiler has been anything different than the global market. Therefore it has not become popular outside its intended market. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote: Quoting RHo:
Quote:
But then not all people here do agree that last name has anything to do with surname and that first and middle name have anything to do with given names. They tell us that those names are strictly positional.
So yes, I would agree that the rules should tell us what each field means.
I tell those people they are wrong. If they were strictly positional, there would have been no reason for Ken to include an option to sort the name field 'Last, First Middle.'
I can understand why this explanation never made it into the rules but, given that some users can't seem to figure it out on their own, it should be added now. I know that you see it like that. But the discussions in the forums tell me that other people don't. Therefore, as you have proposed, a rule clarification about the meaning of the name fields should be made. | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 2,366 |
| Posted: | | | | The usability of DVD Profiler largely depends on the understanding of the English language, because without it it's impossible to read the rules and write notes to get contributions approved. A translation of the program (like the one I provided) only makes it easier for users who only want to download (add) profiles and images, upload their collection and never will or intend to upload (contribute) profiles and images themselves. A change in the naming system therefore will have little impact as it wil only make a difference for the ones who already know how the use it. However I do think that any change to reduce the amount of errors is worth considering. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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