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Invelos Forums->General: Website Discussion |
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 Disciplinary Proposal (Locked) |
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Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Neill:
I will say again> I have made the offer and it will ALWAYS be open. Refusal to atek me up on it says far more about the likes of KinkyC, Ace even Antares and others than it does me.
I am ready are you. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
<sigh>
I give up. You aren't the only one. As much I've tried to be neutral at first I just can't anymore. But I won't write what I think currently of one user for wich I've tried to understand is point of view... As usual the red fly again and let me tell you I gave a lot of them today... Ken don't give a damn, he care only about us when it's a beta test phase, when we make his database grow and when he want to create non-sense rules. You know what! it's my last post untill a real system is enforce (it's clear from what I've read today that self control doesn't work). I will go in the read only mode and used the filter for only the second time since I'm here. Ken you should be ashame of yourself for the way you deal with this situation since at least 3 years  | | | | Last edited: by Jimmy S |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | AESP:
What is wrong with me attempting to hold out the hand of friendship, even to those maliciously continue to attack me? What is wrong with me expecting to see equal treatment, which is something that I do NOT see. What is wrong with me trying to defend MYSELF from...well i won't say what i would like to. I have never asked a user to defend me, I can and will do that myself. But at the same time how am I to read the continued silence of most users, except when it comes to ME. That silence in itself strikes me as self-condemnation, should I read it in some other way? | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I really can not believe how childish everybody sounds. I feel like I am in a room of 8 year olds that cannot get along. "He Started it" "Don't touch me" "He hit me first" "No he did" "Your Stupid" "I know you are but what am I" Please tell me how many people have had a serious discussion in the last 14 pages. If I were Ken, my only statement at this point would be to lock the thread and say hell with it. I wish I could talk to all of you like I talk to my kids. "I DON"T CARE WHO STARTED IT, you all are going to be punished, if you don't stop" Maybe that is what Ken needs to do, treat all of you like the children you behave like. I thought we were all adults, but that apparently is just an impression. GROW UP, act like mature adults. Quit getting your panties (sorry ladies) in a bunch. I apologize to those that I may have offended, but really  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Rick:
You may have thought you made a civil request, but it was not received as such because you only demonstrated a failure to comprehend the issue. Where was that YOU told KinkyC and Ace that their unprovoked assaults were uncivil and counter-productive, rick, where, where did you do that. NOWHERE that's where. But because I try to defend myself, you call me out...go to hell. I must point out the fact that Rick did not call you out. All he did was ask that you use the Red Arrow, rather than make a post asking the mods to remove posts. There are two reasons you haven't seen Rick call out any other users. First, because he is following his own advice and using the Red Arrow, and second, because neither KinkyC nor Ace have asked to have posts removed...mind you, that is just a guess.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Martian:
I explained my viewpoint, I appreciate yours,but that does not negate my perception and I tired to explain that to Rick. I woke up to reading these openly hostile and insulting threads by two users, I tried to kewep my cool about it, for awhile, but finally I felt I had to take some sort of action for this insulting behavior. I took my last step, and for that Rick joined in, which only aggravated an already inflamed situation. Now had Rick shown understanding of the whole entire situation, which would have been possible and I won't tell what i would have done had I been Rick, just suffice it to say that it could have been handled in a much more equitable form, but it required understanding.
Instead he chose to single out one post. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,853 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Rick:
You may have thought you made a civil request, but it was not received as such... And there is one of the problems. When one is determined to feel offended at every little thing that's said, how can we hope to see peace to these forums? --------------- |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
And there is one of the problems. When one is determined to feel offended at every little thing that's said, how can we hope to see peace to these forums?
--------------- +1. This is why any previous attempts at peace haven't worked. If you perceive everything as a personal attack, you'll always think someone else started it. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I understand that, scott. From my viewpoint there is a very long track record. Let's take, for example, Rcik without trying to offend him because that is not the intent. Merely an example, there is a long track record of snipish behavior on his part, he seldom, from my viewpoint, wades into any discussion I am part of without being biting, sarcastic or unpleasant, this for YEARS. He has provided the glasses through which i view his comments, he claims to have tried, I see no evidence of it, perhaps he does not know how, I don't know. I said I would have handled his first post in this thread today in a very different way had I been he. In my view he ignored the unacceptable behavior of two other users completely, but singled me out, that's wrong in my book. Should he read this i hope he will take it as constructive and try to see where I am coming from.
The base problem as i see it, Scott is that there are users who fell empowered to judge others, I don't kniow why but they do seem to feel that way. And they exercise that empowerment both selectively and harshly.<shrugs> They gripe about me and show absolutely no care or concern for the damage the have done to me, so frankly why should I care. But, scott, that said, my hand is out to all. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote:
Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
And there is one of the problems. When one is determined to feel offended at every little thing that's said, how can we hope to see peace to these forums?
---------------
+1. This is why any previous attempts at peace haven't worked. If you perceive everything as a personal attack, you'll always think someone else started it. Ace: That is simply from my viewpoint an excuse for failing to try and understand where the other is coming from. Take your postings from earlier today and others in this thread which have been distastefully hostile and i have said so, even today I said so repeatedly, but did you back off or say to yourself gee maybe i should try standing in his shoes on this, no, not once, Ace, you just kept pushing and pushing and pushing until I had enough and said I wasn't going to put up with it any longer. So don't even try and play innocent now, it won't wash. You want to recognize what you did, I will accept an apology, but you have been very nasty. As I have told others, I will accept and even forgive, it's up to you. You speak like you want to see peace in the forums...prove it. One more thing Ace, let's take this opportunity to expound upon that worst sin of all that i have done, the newbie-snack. I dare you to try in any way to equate, the teasing, usually no more than a comment or two to any given newb, relative to CD profiler or whatever and search, to the kind of daily abuse I receive from you and others, you cannot claim innocence, and I do mean abuse, I would take a guess that today alone I received oh probably at least 15 insults, several from YOU, sveral from KinkyC, asome more from Antares and so forth. The abuse I receive is far more than I have given to ANY user and not just by a few degrees, we are talking quantum leaps here. And I am the bad guy...yeah right.  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | I never saw the posts that have been moderated so I don't know if they were personal attacks or not...I assume they were which is why they were moderated...and quite right too, IMO. I've just quickly scanned this thread again and I can't find any example of Skip being specifically named. Maybe I missed some (maybe they were the moderated ones). Therefore what we have in this thread is generalised statements about the behaviour of some users. So, Skip, I really don't understand why you say this thread is insulting to you personally. Once again, I DIDN'T see the moderated posts. What I have witnessed is the Avatar issue - and for what it's worth - I also felt it was an attack on Skip but I disagreed with the summary removal of said avatar. I think this should have been a warning issue, personally. Skip, you mention people having an agenda against you....but I can't find any statement that states "I want this new moderation rule accepted so we can get Skip banned". This thread is much more about clarifying the moderation standards so that we ALL know what is acceptable and what is not. Surely this is a good thing. If this results in certain users getting banned that will be because those users deserve to be banned for bad behaviour. People can't act badly, suffer the consequences but still blame other people for what happens to them. I know from some of your posts recently that you feel those of us who have never been moderated should have been. Well, in my opinion, you are totally wrong. I have never been moderated and, as far as I am concerned, that is because I have never used bad language, called someone names or any of the other offences that can get someone moderated. If someone gets moderated it is because their post was a big NO-NO and as such deserved to be removed. If I swear at someone or tell them to 'go to hell' or 'get stuffed' I would expect to receive some red arrows and possibly be moderated. So...I refrain from using such language. Quote:
I will add that casting negative votes because you find something someone said generically offensive as opposed to PERSONALLY offensive shows a regrettable level of intolerance for the opinions of others, The above quote is from a forum member. I only issue Red Arrows if people use bad language or insulting language either generally or at a specific user. Example of something I would Red Arrow: "You have no credibility and I am sick of your incessant whining. Get stuffed, loser" However, this would not: "I think you've made your point enough times. I disagree with you so I think it's time to end this discussion." |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 145 |
| | Posted: | | | | Is it a double post since I agree with everything below? (Except I did see at least two posts that were moderated deservedly; but they should not be blown out of proportion) Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
I never saw the posts that have been moderated so I don't know if they were personal attacks or not...I assume they were which is why they were moderated...and quite right too, IMO.
I've just quickly scanned this thread again and I can't find any example of Skip being specifically named. Maybe I missed some (maybe they were the moderated ones).
Therefore what we have in this thread is generalised statements about the behaviour of some users.
So, Skip, I really don't understand why you say this thread is insulting to you personally. Once again, I DIDN'T see the moderated posts.
What I have witnessed is the Avatar issue - and for what it's worth - I also felt it was an attack on Skip but I disagreed with the summary removal of said avatar. I think this should have been a warning issue, personally.
Skip, you mention people having an agenda against you....but I can't find any statement that states "I want this new moderation rule accepted so we can get Skip banned".
This thread is much more about clarifying the moderation standards so that we ALL know what is acceptable and what is not. Surely this is a good thing.
If this results in certain users getting banned that will be because those users deserve to be banned for bad behaviour. People can't act badly, suffer the consequences but still blame other people for what happens to them.
I know from some of your posts recently that you feel those of us who have never been moderated should have been. Well, in my opinion, you are totally wrong.
I have never been moderated and, as far as I am concerned, that is because I have never used bad language, called someone names or any of the other offences that can get someone moderated.
If someone gets moderated it is because their post was a big NO-NO and as such deserved to be removed.
If I swear at someone or tell them to 'go to hell' or 'get stuffed' I would expect to receive some red arrows and possibly be moderated. So...I refrain from using such language.
Quote:
I will add that casting negative votes because you find something someone said generically offensive as opposed to PERSONALLY offensive shows a regrettable level of intolerance for the opinions of others,
The above quote is from a forum member.
I only issue Red Arrows if people use bad language or insulting language either generally or at a specific user.
Example of something I would Red Arrow:
"You have no credibility and I am sick of your incessant whining. Get stuffed, loser"
However, this would not:
"I think you've made your point enough times. I disagree with you so I think it's time to end this discussion." | | | | Last edited: by IronWaffle |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 145 |
| | Posted: | | | | I wonder if the key is for the parties most directly involved in this and with the longest history, as it has been said, work this out as a group privately with one of the moderators.
I believe that the tension in here now is likely to spring a new pool of people taking sides and just extend this another generation.
It appears that while several people (and that includes, but is not limited to skip) say they are ready to let bygones be bygones, but that it will take time and a couple turns of the cheek before it can happen.
This public display only serves to taint the waters. In my opinion.
Now, back to THE AFRICAN QUEEN. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | The fact that one user can tell another user to "go to hell" and the post remains speaks loud and clear as to what is acceptable behavior.
I should clarify... acceptable behavior for some users.
@CharlieM. Your post is part of the problem whether you want to admit it or not. When someone who defends himself against an unprovoked attack yet does so without attacking back is still lumped in with the attacker and in addition is called a child there is no hope.
I'll just come out and say what many have been tip-toeing around (even though we all know what is being said).
There is a problem here. The problem is one self righteous bully. His name is Maurice. He is involved in 99% of every fight and my guess is 100% of every locked thread. There is not one other member who falls into that category. The few times the bully has been banned things are better. People disagree but it remains civil. Like it or not that is a fact. Am I calling for him to be banned? It doesn't matter. That's not my call. IF someone asked if I felt the atmosphere here would be better without him I would have to answer yes. It has been proven more than once. Others have been banned as well but for the most part they weren't even missed during their absence as many of us take breaks from posting. But when someone who posts 16 times a day and at least half of them are arguments with someone stops posting it does make a difference.
I will also gladly suffer any consequences for stating what so many have just hinted towards. At least Invelos would be doing SOMETHING! |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,751 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | | Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting IronWaffle: Quote:
I wonder if the key is for the parties most directly involved in this and with the longest history, as it has been said, work this out as a group privately with one of the moderators. If I am to be included in that group count me out. Lines have been crossed that can never be uncrossed. (not the 1st time I have admitted it) . I can be civil but nothing will ever be worked out. The way I see it it is like working with someone you don't like. I can be professional and civil but I will never be friends. Nor will I sit back when I see them do to others what they have done to me. Quote:
I believe that the tension in here now is likely to spring a new pool of people taking sides and just extend this another generation. You're starting to see the pattern many of us have seen for years. The new group comes in. They see the problem as a group thing. Eventually they too are attacked for no reason and they soon become part of the "group". But along come some new people who just want everyone to get along again. Quote:
It appears that while several people (and that includes, but is not limited to skip) say they are ready to let bygones be bygones, but that it will take time and a couple turns of the cheek before it can happen. Maurice has been saying that crap for years yet his actions prove different. He says he doesn't let the past come into play yet he continues to dog things up from the past. Have you never heard about the infamous SRP issue with James. 4 or 5 year ago yet is still a reason quoted almost monthly when Maurice attacks James for a vote where they don't agree. Of course there is Ace and his genre problems. Another thing Maurice brings up all too often. (Actually Ace I don't think it's a problem, just using it as an example). There are many instances where when it suits him Maurice will bring up issues from the past. But let's not forget, he holds no grudges consideres everyone a friend. He tells me in this thread to go to hell then sdays if I apologize to him we can be friends again as he holds no ill will. It's his way of making him self look innocent, to all the new people who don't know any better (which brings us back to your point above). Quote:
This public display only serves to taint the waters. In my opinion. And it is a valid opinion, also spot on. Quote:
Now, back to THE AFRICAN QUEEN. Watched it last night myself. Fantastic, |
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Invelos Forums->General: Website Discussion |
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