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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 813 |
| | | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 630 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Not at all. There seems to be a penchant everywhere except R1 to rename movies to something other than what it's actual name is.
Does this mean you acknowledge this is affecting a pretty large userbase (everyone outside R1), and you acknowledge that you would not be affected by this field (as you are in R1 and do not need it)? I can't read it any other way, but maybe I am misunderstanding you. Quote:
Why can't you just translate it if necessary and leave it at that?
Ask the movie importers/distributers/whatever they are called. I am afraid standard DVD Profiler users do not really have much to say on this subject. Quote:
Instead, you've got the on screen title, a DVD cover title (usually in some other language and no bearing on the actual title at all), a sort title field, and now you want a master title. Doesn't make sense to me. It is as if you say the field can not be added because you do not agree with the way distributers name the movies in various countries - but this just makes no sense at all? It's like saying we should not include information on regions because I do not beleive region codes should be allowed in the first place. | | | Regards
Lars |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting alexis.bousiges: Quote:
In France, our "non-French movies DVDs" use French titles, those titles are "differents" than Original Titles, and many times those Original Titles are "differents" than the title on the video inside this DVD. (I.E. : those Italian movies from the golden age of the Italy with an English Master title, an Italian Original Title, and a French-or-others DVD title - Real movies collectors check the Master inside a DVD before buying it : (for the Italian exemple) some are cut (English), some are uncut (Italian), some are good (Italian), some are not (English)).*
I think, the RC1 guys here  still didn't get the background. A "master title" should not be a "prefered" title but the title of the master used to produce the DVD! The background: In Europe Films often get produced by very small companies which can neither afford to distribute the film themselves nor they have distriibution companies aside. The solution is to sell the whole film - often films are sold to an festival distributor, american distributors, etc. - most of them rename and sometimes recut the film; another constelation here is, that film where coproduced by many different countries, which leads to more than one "original version" of the film (differently cut for different countries or purposes - eg. TV and cinema)... Having a master title would mean to have the possibility to track down the origin of the version of the film. As an example you can use the well known Italo-western "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" where there exist (quite unknown) italian original version and the (well known) american recut, and at least one directors cut... The difference between America and Europe is, that we get more different versions to see here, since we have to synchronize most of the films anyways and it's within possibilities to sync one film twice. In America you only get the english one - I've never seen two different sync'd versions in English while this happens quite often here... I hope, I was able to bring some enlightment on this topic... And now my personal opinion on that: I can neither imagine how to track down, prove and document which master was used for a profiled DVD, nor would I have any idea how to name this master - since if we'd have this feature, we would also have to implement different cuts of the films with this feature. - Eg.: Original italian cut Italian directors cut American recut Russian censored cut - which one is a different release and which one is "only" a different master? Regards AA | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 810 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Sounds to me like it's a problem your region has created for itself...
Sounds to me that ping pong contributions problems were created in zone 1, anyway everyone everywhere in the world have to cope with those off-putting rules  .
But when a problem concerns other zones, it must not be considered... 
Not at all. There seems to be a penchant everywhere except R1 to rename movies to something other than what it's actual name is. Why can't you just translate it if necessary and leave it at that? Instead, you've got the on screen title, a DVD cover title (usually in some other language and no bearing on the actual title at all), a sort title field, and now you want a master title. Doesn't make sense to me. So John, what about "Mad Max II"? Why was it renamed "The Road Warrior" here is the US? Oh I forgot that never happens here! Now I know that you don't own any non-English language films, but some of us R1 people do, it happens to them all the time. pdf | | | Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA |
| | Registered: May 10, 2007 | | Posts: 418 |
| | Posted: | | | | Die Hard 4 on the cover but the title on dvd is John Mclain goes to Washington  | | | | Last edited: by Randall_Lind |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pdf256: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Sounds to me like it's a problem your region has created for itself...
Sounds to me that ping pong contributions problems were created in zone 1, anyway everyone everywhere in the world have to cope with those off-putting rules .
But when a problem concerns other zones, it must not be considered...
Not at all. There seems to be a penchant everywhere except R1 to rename movies to something other than what it's actual name is. Why can't you just translate it if necessary and leave it at that? Instead, you've got the on screen title, a DVD cover title (usually in some other language and no bearing on the actual title at all), a sort title field, and now you want a master title. Doesn't make sense to me.
So John, what about "Mad Max II"?
Why was it renamed "The Road Warrior" here is the US?
Oh I forgot that never happens here!
Now I know that you don't own any non-English language films, but some of us R1 people do, it happens to them all the time.
pdf In the case of Mad Max, it was renamed because the first movie hadn't been released here yet. I still don't see the problem. If there is an "original" original version, then that should go in the Original Title slot. Otherwise, use the DVD cover title. Use the Sort Title whichever way floats your boat. Btw, I do own non-English movies. Don't assume that what you see in the online list is all that I own. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pdf256: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Sounds to me like it's a problem your region has created for itself...
Sounds to me that ping pong contributions problems were created in zone 1, anyway everyone everywhere in the world have to cope with those off-putting rules .
But when a problem concerns other zones, it must not be considered...
Not at all. There seems to be a penchant everywhere except R1 to rename movies to something other than what it's actual name is. Why can't you just translate it if necessary and leave it at that? Instead, you've got the on screen title, a DVD cover title (usually in some other language and no bearing on the actual title at all), a sort title field, and now you want a master title. Doesn't make sense to me.
So John, what about "Mad Max II"?
Why was it renamed "The Road Warrior" here is the US?
Oh I forgot that never happens here!
Now I know that you don't own any non-English language films, but some of us R1 people do, it happens to them all the time.
pdf Paul: Wouldn't that come under Original Title?  I agree with your final paragraph AA, and even assuming that could tracked down and documented I am not sure what REAL value it adds. Based on what I am reading let me offer what appears to be something close to it and see if I am on the right tarack. In the 50's and 60's films used to be released rather commonly in multiple forms, sometime they were called Road Shows and others for other reasons. Two examples come to mind. Lady and the Tramp was the very first Widescreen animated featue released by the Walt Disney Co. However, back in the mid 50's Widescreen Theaters were quite uncommon, so the film was released in both a FF format for most Theaters and Widescreen for those theaters which had the BIG screen. Other than the viewing format both films were identical in every respect. It's A Mad, Mad, Mad Mad World was released in major in an extended form for "Road Show" which included Introduction and Intermission. It was released in a shorter version for most markets and there have been at least 3 other cuts of the film made over the years. The ACTUAL Roiad Show print is currently considered lost  and likely to never be seen again. The current version on DVD is the closest that has been produced to the Road Show version of the film. But all versions retained the SAME name and there was nothing to distinguish which version you were watching or are watching now...unless you happen to be familiar with the film's history. <shrugs> I don't think this what you are referringto but it's the only thing I can think of. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,337 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Btw, I do own non-English movies. Don't assume that what you see in the online list is all that I own. So you also know that best porn comes from Germany? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,436 |
| | Posted: | | | | Arguing against a feature request that doesn't effect you or you don't understand seems weird to me... What I don't get is, just HOW can the Sort Title fullfil the function of the requested field? Whilea counter argumnet was given (Sort Title is invisible and would wreak havoc if used for this), an explanation for how this could possibly work is missing. To use the Title form the movie doesn't apply, as it's a foreign film. In this particular case, the onscreen Title actually even differs from the Original Title and the Title on the cover... An additional field, even if rarely used in R1 land, would allow to add this information to the profile. | | | Achim [諾亞信； Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan.
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative) |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am not arguing aginst it, Achim, I am trying to understand it. I find your comment to be weird and somewhat deroigatory. I have not once argued against it, I have repeatedly said I am trying to understand and so far no one has tepped up to try and help clarify it. A couple of demeaning comments from some users that quite frankly don't surprise me at all.<annoyed> If I don't understand it, I don't know if it is relevant to either myself or anyone else. Thanks for being useful...NOT. I think your tin hat is interferring with your thinking. My apologies for wanting to understand this. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,436 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well, I didn't mention you doing so, did I...? Anyway, there have now been multiple explanations what this field is supposed to be used for (I agree that incorporation into the Rules would have to be done carefully), including my post. What else can be said? Example, unsing slightly different approach: Title on cover : Last Cannibal World Original Title : Ultimo mondo cannibale Title in the opening credits : Jungle Holocaust Using DVD Profiler one of these three Titles will not be profiled, as there are simply not enough fields. The Rules will tell you which two to use for the program as it is now, but one of them will be 'lost'. That is what this request for. I hope this makes it a little clearer. | | | Achim [諾亞信； Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan.
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative) |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hmmmm: I am not going to say this is not a region 1 issue, I will only say I haven't seen it. It sounds very strange to me, i wonder just how common it is.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 17, 2007 | | Posts: 125 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting alexis.bousiges: Quote:
In France, our "non-French movies DVDs" use French titles, those titles are "different" than Original Titles, and many times those Original Titles are "different" than the title on the video inside this DVD. (I.E. : those Italian movies from the golden age of the Italy with an English Master title, an Italian Original Title, and a French-or-others DVD title - Real movies collectors check the Master inside a DVD before buying it : (for the Italian exemple) some are cut (English), some are uncut (Italian), some are good (Italian), some are not (English)).*
* Sometimes, it's more complicated than that (always for the Italian movie example) : An English Master can have an Italian soundtrack (!) (DVD distributors use this method to hide the lack of Original Master). For collectors, a DVD with an Original Master (a master title which is egal to the original title) is better than a DVD with a Non-Original Master (a master title which is different than the original title). I think I get what you mean. You have to deal with many languages in Europe and sometimes one film will reach another country via multiple channels. So as a DVD shopper you want to know: Is this the original version of this Italian film with french subtitles, or is this the American cut now dubbed in french or is this actually the longer German version that is dubbed in english with french subtitles? Sounds very ponderous. I guess this suggested field would be most helpful to those who already know what editions were released for that film and what their titles are. I would suggest this field be called PRINT TITLE and not MASTER TITLE for clarity. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 810 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Quoting pdf256:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Sounds to me like it's a problem your region has created for itself...
Sounds to me that ping pong contributions problems were created in zone 1, anyway everyone everywhere in the world have to cope with those off-putting rules .
But when a problem concerns other zones, it must not be considered...
Not at all. There seems to be a penchant everywhere except R1 to rename movies to something other than what it's actual name is. Why can't you just translate it if necessary and leave it at that? Instead, you've got the on screen title, a DVD cover title (usually in some other language and no bearing on the actual title at all), a sort title field, and now you want a master title. Doesn't make sense to me.
So John, what about "Mad Max II"?
Why was it renamed "The Road Warrior" here is the US?
Oh I forgot that never happens here!
Now I know that you don't own any non-English language films, but some of us R1 people do, it happens to them all the time.
pdf
In the case of Mad Max, it was renamed because the first movie hadn't been released here yet.
This is just not true, it did not do all that well, but it did play here. I saw it at the Town and Country in Los Angeles (SF valley). Quote:
I still don't see the problem. If there is an "original" original version, then that should go in the Original Title slot. Otherwise, use the DVD cover title. Use the Sort Title whichever way floats your boat.
Yes in this case orig title should work fine, but your claim was that it is only outside the US that films get renamed. Quote:
Btw, I do own non-English movies. Don't assume that what you see in the online list is all that I own. OK, I guess that you want your public image to be that of the "USA all the way" type, so you skip all those non-US films in your public listing.  pdf (No Skipnet50, the use of the word 'skip' was not a dig at you) | | | Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA | | | | Last edited: by pdf256 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | But you owe me 25 cents royalty for the use of Skip  Skip©  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting djskyler: Quote:
I think I get what you mean. You have to deal with many languages in Europe and sometimes one film will reach another country via multiple channels. So as a DVD shopper you want to know: Is this the original version of this Italian film with french subtitles, or is this the American cut now dubbed in french or is this actually the longer German version that is dubbed in english with french subtitles? Sounds very ponderous. I guess this suggested field would be most helpful to those who already know what editions were released for that film and what their titles are.
That's exactly the point. Quote:
I would suggest this field be called PRINT TITLE and not MASTER TITLE for clarity. But here I've to repeat my argument against any form of additional title: I can't imagine to reach the goal of differentiating versions of a film (master material) by adding an additional title field. There are too many cases where the different versions have the same title. - And that has nothing in common with the "Disc Edition", since this refer only to the silver disc in your hand, not to the film pressed on it. After thinking a little bit more about this: I think we should get an "Master Edition" field to describe this fact. But the problem how to name it, how to prove and document it still remains unresolved. Regards, AA | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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