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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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Bad HD Transfers. Let's compile a list |
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| Author |
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| Registered: June 27, 2007 |  Posts: 2,049 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ninehours: Quote:
Spartacus HD DVD is the worst I've seen
Review Really? I was so looking forward to that one. I love that movie and got the HD DVD for a long time. Just haven't watched it yet. Well let's see. | | | | Check out my Youtube channel under https://www.youtube.com/user/alittleolder |
|   | Erik | | It's a strange world. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 422 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Stephan.klose: Quote:
I heard a couple of people meantioning "Pan's Labyrinth" by now. I gotta check on High-def Digest what he has to say about it. Just a small thing, not to sound smug. High-Def Digest is not exactly the most respected site around for (especially) their picture quality reviews. Pan got a near-perfect score (!). Of course they also review smaller films, ones they have admitted look stellar, as good as the source material allows, but: "While this review will likely become a part of the ongoing debate of director's intent vs. video quality, it would be misleading to our readers if we rated 'A Mighty Heart' with the same score as other Paramount HD DVD releases like 'Transformers.' This transfer may be just as faithful, but it certainly doesn't give home theater enthusiasts the same visual bang for their buck."Way to be objective! Only "cool" and sleek Bayhem films can get good ratings... perhaps two sets of PQ ratings should be employed, one for the personal taste of the reviewer, and one for the actual quality of the transfer. Filmmakers and more in-the-know image/codec/transfer people snicker.  | | | Erik
"Has it ever occurred to you, man, that given the nature of all this new stuff, that, uh, instead of running around blaming me, that this whole thing might just be, not, you know, not just such a simple, but uh - you know?" -- The Dude, The Big Lebowski
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| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hometheaterspot.com, HighDefDigest, DVD Talk, DVD Authority, TheManRoom, DVDTOWN, Blu-ray.com, etc rank Pan's Labyrinth highly (those that reviewed it). | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Hometheaterspot.com, HighDefDigest, DVD Talk, DVD Authority, TheManRoom, DVDTOWN, Blu-ray.com, etc rank Pan's Labyrinth highly (those that reviewed it). That may be so. But it's also the poster child for excessive DNR among enthusiasts. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. |
| | Erik | | It's a strange world. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 422 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Hometheaterspot.com, HighDefDigest, DVD Talk, DVD Authority, TheManRoom, DVDTOWN, Blu-ray.com, etc rank Pan's Labyrinth highly (those that reviewed it). In all fairness, some of these sites were probably not aware of the DNR attack on the US Pan's Labyrinth, but it also shows you that people reviewing HD material are not necessarily that well-versed in the technical aspects of neither film nor transfers. I refer to the classic example of A.I. where people panned the transfer, very well-known DVD review web sites, due to supposedly horrible picture quality -- even mentions of faulty discs if I recall correctly. It was, of course, Spielberg's fully intentional use of grain and soft focus... It's a potentially long discussion, from "Can and should anyone become a DVD/HD reviewer?" to "We can't expect them all to be experts who can notice two interlaced frames in a 120 minute film." | | | Erik
"Has it ever occurred to you, man, that given the nature of all this new stuff, that, uh, instead of running around blaming me, that this whole thing might just be, not, you know, not just such a simple, but uh - you know?" -- The Dude, The Big Lebowski
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| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mark Harrison: Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Hometheaterspot.com, HighDefDigest, DVD Talk, DVD Authority, TheManRoom, DVDTOWN, Blu-ray.com, etc rank Pan's Labyrinth highly (those that reviewed it).
That may be so. But it's also the poster child for excessive DNR among enthusiasts. I agree, but that could be why it didn't get 4.5 stars from those that gave it 4 stars or why it didn't get 5 stars from those that gave it 4.5 stars. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Erik: Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Hometheaterspot.com, HighDefDigest, DVD Talk, DVD Authority, TheManRoom, DVDTOWN, Blu-ray.com, etc rank Pan's Labyrinth highly (those that reviewed it).
In all fairness, some of these sites were probably not aware of the DNR attack on the US Pan's Labyrinth, but it also shows you that people reviewing HD material are not necessarily that well-versed in the technical aspects of neither film nor transfers. I refer to the classic example of A.I. where people panned the transfer, very well-known DVD review web sites, due to supposedly horrible picture quality -- even mentions of faulty discs if I recall correctly. It was, of course, Spielberg's fully intentional use of grain and soft focus...
It's a potentially long discussion, from "Can and should anyone become a DVD/HD reviewer?" to "We can't expect them all to be experts who can notice two interlaced frames in a 120 minute film." Actually, a few of these people have film degrees. They probably didn't feel it deserved a 3 stars drop in ratings. One thing, I'm trying to stop looking at the stars ratings and read the video/audio portion of their reviews. I find that to be a MUCH better way of seeing what they think about the title (although they don't cover everything about the title in their reviews). I don't expect them to leave their target audience in the cold by giving completely technical reviews. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles | | | | Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think these two screen shots tell the story for Pan's Labyrinth. Look at her cheeks for example to see the details that were erased in the US version. I don't think it deserves 4 or 4.5 stars. I'm not claiming I could do any better as a reviewer, but the people who are reviewing should spot things like this: UK ReleaseUS ReleaseI found those on this link that someone posted earlier (perhaps in this very thread). | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. | | | | Last edited: by Mark Harrison |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mark Harrison: Quote:
I think these two screen shots tell the story for Pan's Labyrinth. Look at her cheeks for example to see the details that were erased in the US version. I don't think it deserves 4 or 4.5 stars. I'm not claiming I could do any better as a reviewer, but the people who are reviewing should spot things like this:
UK Release
US Release
I found those on this link that someone posted earlier (perhaps in this very thread). I understand. I just don't think 2 stars should be taken away for that. If that was the case, that jelly like effect, that decreases detail, from low bitrate VC-1 and filters would have put a lot of movies into the 3 stars rating category. Batman Begins would've probably gotten 2.5 to 3 stars. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles | | | | Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan |
| | Erik | | It's a strange world. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 422 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Actually, a few of these people have film degrees. I'm sure, I didn't mean to suggest that every reviewer of DVD/Blu-ray online is "bad." Mainly I 'want' people not to be overly reliant on "the stars." Even though High-Def Digest pans something doesn't mean it definitely is poor and should be discarded (and, yes, many people unfortunately do this. None of the good folks in here, of course).  Quote:
They probably didn't feel it deserved a 3 stars drop in ratings. I think more than half a point should be shaved off if you look at those screencaps, but that's JMHO... Quote:
One thing, I'm trying to stop looking at the stars ratings and read the video/audio portion of their reviews. I find that to be a MUCH better way of seeing what they think about the title (although they don't cover everything about the title in their reviews). Same here, although it varies greatly how much I "trust" their opinions. Unless a title is universally panned with horrible screenshots on top of everything, I usually give the disc a try if it's a film I'm interested in, to "make up my own damn mind." Quote:
I don't expect them to leave their target audience in the cold by giving completely technical reviews. It's a fine balance, and that's what the AVS Forum is for, although I have to admit, I've gotten used to "technical reviews" and rather enjoy the whole process from film to BD. Such as the musings of Mr. Vince Pereira, which either intrigue or make people head for the hills... - - - "EYES WIDE SHUT is probably the grainiest 35mm production of the last ten years. Kubrick shot it using Kodak's fast 500 ASA 5298 filmstock - already a grainy stock to begin with (in fact it was in the process of being discontinued when Kubrick began production on EYES, but he choose it over the newer, much finer grained "Vision" 500 stock because he didn't like how the Vision stock's color shifted when push-processed) - and had it pushed a full 2-stops in the lab during processing. Talk about a grainfest!IMO, the heavy graininess (blacks in particular were SWIMMING with heavy grain in the 35mm prints) worked and added to the dreamy nature of the film, but I digress - to say Kubrick "avoided grain" is wrong, as proven at the very least by his final film."--[After someone says "Wow this looks crap, almost like a regular DVD! You cannot even see the pores in her face :\ You really should watch Pirates 2, just to compare what real reference is, you can see every pore in every shot" about either Elizabeth or Pride & Prejudice] "I'm sure most actresses would absolutely love it if they were photographed in close-up with no make-up on and in super sharp focus so the audience could see every pore and flaw in their faces.I mean, seriously, you're comparing close-ups of Johnny Depp and others in PotC to a close-up of the leading lady in a costume epic? Ever hear of diffusion? It's usually used to make actors look better in close-up. You don't want super-sharp focus to expose an actor's physical faults usually, or you'd be dealing with a very pissed off actor. In the PotC films, the point was for the Pirates to look ragged and rough, hence no diffusion and super-sharp focus on the close-ups." | | | Erik
"Has it ever occurred to you, man, that given the nature of all this new stuff, that, uh, instead of running around blaming me, that this whole thing might just be, not, you know, not just such a simple, but uh - you know?" -- The Dude, The Big Lebowski
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| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with almost everything you stated. The only thing we differ on is how much should be taken off for that. Actually, I don't even strongly disagree with that. I think a 1 star deduction might just be considered fair. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,436 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting: Quote:
Hometheaterspot.com, HighDefDigest, DVD Talk, DVD Authority, TheManRoom, DVDTOWN, Blu-ray.com, etc rank Pan's Labyrinth highly (those that reviewed it). So, to the average user who does use the occasional review to guide a purchase, maybe particularly a decision between DVD or Blu Ray purchase, what would be good review places to look at? I currently consult DVD Talk, Blu-ray.com and HiDefDigest and then kind of mediate the result. Of course, on certain films a good portion of gut feeling and personal preference of the film may support a pro-purchase decision despite mediocre reviews. After all, there is probably few Blu rays which boast image far worse than their DVD counter parts...? | | | Achim [諾亞信； Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan.
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative) |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ya_shin: Quote:
Quoting:
Quote:
Hometheaterspot.com, HighDefDigest, DVD Talk, DVD Authority, TheManRoom, DVDTOWN, Blu-ray.com, etc rank Pan's Labyrinth highly (those that reviewed it).
So, to the average user who does use the occasional review to guide a purchase, maybe particularly a decision between DVD or Blu Ray purchase, what would be good review places to look at?
I honestly don't know of a good review site that will catch all the little problems that may exist. And if you do find a good site, you still need to pay attention to which reviewer posted the review. If you're concerned about it, I'd recommend going somewhere like AVSForums, look in the Blu-ray Software section and see if you can find a thread about the title you're interested in. If there are issues with a release (of a big title), you can be sure they'll find it and beat it to death. Of course most of the stuff they find is completely unnoticeable to me. I tend to get into the movie and ignore the little stuff. But I do enjoy knowing anyway. It has to be truly horrible before it starts bugging me. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,436 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mark Harrison: Quote:
Of course most of the stuff they find is completely unnoticeable to me. I tend to get into the movie and ignore the little stuff. But I do enjoy knowing anyway. It has to be truly horrible before it starts bugging me. That is actually what the DVD Savant guy from DVD Talk said... He mentioned it in regards to the bad reputation the Patton disc has... He said he wasn't bothered by the faults the nit pickers from the forums (fora?) are discussing... | | | Achim [諾亞信； Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan.
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative) |
| | Registered: June 27, 2007 | | Posts: 2,049 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Quoting Erik:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Hometheaterspot.com, HighDefDigest, DVD Talk, DVD Authority, TheManRoom, DVDTOWN, Blu-ray.com, etc rank Pan's Labyrinth highly (those that reviewed it).
In all fairness, some of these sites were probably not aware of the DNR attack on the US Pan's Labyrinth, but it also shows you that people reviewing HD material are not necessarily that well-versed in the technical aspects of neither film nor transfers. I refer to the classic example of A.I. where people panned the transfer, very well-known DVD review web sites, due to supposedly horrible picture quality -- even mentions of faulty discs if I recall correctly. It was, of course, Spielberg's fully intentional use of grain and soft focus...
It's a potentially long discussion, from "Can and should anyone become a DVD/HD reviewer?" to "We can't expect them all to be experts who can notice two interlaced frames in a 120 minute film."
Actually, a few of these people have film degrees. They probably didn't feel it deserved a 3 stars drop in ratings. One thing, I'm trying to stop looking at the stars ratings and read the video/audio portion of their reviews. I find that to be a MUCH better way of seeing what they think about the title (although they don't cover everything about the title in their reviews).
I don't expect them to leave their target audience in the cold by giving completely technical reviews. Coming back to High-Def Digest. I read their reviews for every movie I watched in HD since I got my LCD TV. I have to say that I really, mostly, agree with their reviews. You should, indeed, always read the review and not just go by the stars. | | | | Check out my Youtube channel under https://www.youtube.com/user/alittleolder |
| | Registered: June 27, 2007 | | Posts: 2,049 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ya_shin: Quote:
Quoting:
Quote:
Hometheaterspot.com, HighDefDigest, DVD Talk, DVD Authority, TheManRoom, DVDTOWN, Blu-ray.com, etc rank Pan's Labyrinth highly (those that reviewed it).
So, to the average user who does use the occasional review to guide a purchase, maybe particularly a decision between DVD or Blu Ray purchase, what would be good review places to look at?
I currently consult DVD Talk, Blu-ray.com and HiDefDigest and then kind of mediate the result.
Of course, on certain films a good portion of gut feeling and personal preference of the film may support a pro-purchase decision despite mediocre reviews. After all, there is probably few Blu rays which boast image far worse than their DVD counter parts...? Well, check out "Robocop" on Blu Ray and then watch the upscaled "20th anniversary Edition".. I wonder if you can spot the difference.. Aside from that movie, usually HD Titles are far superior than SD Versions. Sometimes sadly, though, they are treated to death until they become virtually unwatchable. I think Ascended_Saiyan would be more than happy to quote an example for you. | | | | Check out my Youtube channel under https://www.youtube.com/user/alittleolder |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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