Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next
What happened to all the contributions?
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
France Posts: 4,479
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
Any interest in that?

I think this is a great idea. Your plugin is already helpful to find all technical informations, and creating directly a profile with contributable informations is the best way to avoid errors.  We could get rapidly profiles used as a start point for more information.

Unfortunately, it does not solve the main problem, which is how to get usable cast/crew data. And this problem cannot be solved without rules change. Either you follow rules and get unlinkable data, either you want correct linking and cannot contribute. Every user who chooses second solution cannot contribute more than your technical data, which is anyway a good thing. 
Images from movies
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 1,646
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
Any interest in that?

I think this is a great idea. Your plugin is already helpful to find all technical informations, and creating directly a profile with contributable informations is the best way to avoid errors.  We could get rapidly profiles used as a start point for more information.

Unfortunately, it does not solve the main problem, which is how to get usable cast/crew data. And this problem cannot be solved without rules change. Either you follow rules and get unlinkable data, either you want correct linking and cannot contribute. Every user who chooses second solution cannot contribute more than your technical data, which is anyway a good thing. 


An automated process would be beneficial but if it's reliant on a program such as AnyDVD, as is BDInfo, then it won't be that useful to most users and may cause more problems than not.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
Aim high. Ride the wind.
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 6,463
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting rdodolak:
Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
Any interest in that?

I think this is a great idea. Your plugin is already helpful to find all technical informations, and creating directly a profile with contributable informations is the best way to avoid errors.  We could get rapidly profiles used as a start point for more information.

Unfortunately, it does not solve the main problem, which is how to get usable cast/crew data. And this problem cannot be solved without rules change. Either you follow rules and get unlinkable data, either you want correct linking and cannot contribute. Every user who chooses second solution cannot contribute more than your technical data, which is anyway a good thing. 


An automated process would be beneficial but if it's reliant on a program such as AnyDVD, as is BDInfo, then it won't be that useful to most users and may cause more problems than not.

Well of course you need AnyDVD or the equivalent. In fact my plugin uses code extracted from both DVDInfo and BDInfo, with some bug fixes, as of the time I got the code. (I said "of course", but in fact I have long since forgotten exactly why - I remember somebody notifying me of the fact in the DVDPca thread - guess I need to go back and read it ...  )

I'm curious what the problems are that you refer to? I don't mean to try to change your opinion, I just don't understand the point, so I am asking merely for clarification, not to argue.

By the way, the lack of AnyDVD does not cause any error or instability. Just certain information is not decoded, but again I have forgotten for the moment exactly what elements. I will look into it next chance I get.
Thanks for your support.
Free Plugins available here.
Advanced plugins available here.
Hey, new product!!! BDPFrog.
 Last edited: by mediadogg
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorVoltaire53
Missed again!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 2,293
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Kathy:
Quote:
The reason I don't contribute new releases is because I seldom buy movies when they first come out.


I think this may be one of the big reasons contributions *appear* to have slowed down whereas (as Ken says) they have actually been quite consistent. I would guess that lot of people (certainly including myself) with large collections have realised that the difference in price between a DVD when they bought it and when they finally watch it is quite significant so whereas lots of us used to purchase on day of release we now wait until the price drops significantly (to a point where it probably won't drop much more) - in my case for DVDs about 1/3 RRP, BDs about 1/2 RRP saving significant money but meaning new releases don't hit the database so quickly.

Also (and this is backed up by mreeder50's comment plus my own observations of what *has* been contributed) collectors ie. the sort of people more likely to use DVDP (not the general public) have tended to move to Blu-ray for the blockbuster title releases so I often see the BD contributed quite early but the DVD not for months so if you enter the EAN/UPC for the DVD you won't see anything about the new title.
It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong
 Last edited: by Voltaire53
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMithi
Sushi Annihilator
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
Germany Posts: 2,217
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting RobAGD:
Quote:
I typically only contribute the Basics  Cast/UPS/Cover Scans - Personally I am not going to fight people of crew stuff, and I don't particularly care for Crew info any way.

Very similar for me. If I get my hands on previously contributed c&c's, I use them and give them a quick-check. If not, then not. If the c&c-portion isn't accepted, it isn't. I don't care enough for cast and crew to start trouble over them.

Quote:
I have some issues with BluRays submissions as I don't have a way to get disc id's. A few examples of this would be the Matric BlueRay collection with The Matrix, Matrix Reloaded, Matrix Rebellion and Animatrix. It is a 4 disc Fan Favorite thing and I cant add the discs to build a profile for it.

THIS to the power of ten!
I would really urge every owner of a BD-ROM to contribute IDs as much as possible.
In RobADG's example the most basic parent profile with the Disc-IDs in the Discs-Section (even if not allowed on Boxset Parents) would go a very long way!
Everyone willing can clone child-profiles from the Disc-IDs with BulkEdit for such a profile and then delete them from the parent.
I currently would need them to contribute 2 sets and check ~6 others which possibly have wrong child-profiles attached.

cya, Mithi
Mithi's little XSLT tinkering - the power of XML --- DVD-Profiler Mini-Wiki
 Last edited: by Mithi
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 1,646
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
I'm curious what the problems are that you refer to? I don't mean to try to change your opinion, I just don't understand the point, so I am asking merely for clarification, not to argue.


My comment wasn't meant to be a knock on your program and it would certainly be useful for some of us.  However, if this were to be integrated into the DVD Profiler program, as a standard feature, I can see it causing more issues than not.  It's likely most users won't purchase the required software to take advantage of this feature.  I could also see users being confused as to why a feature isn't working properly if they don't have the required third-party software.  Then there is also the legality aspect of such programs, from the studios' perspective, in the US.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 1,646
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Voltaire53:
Quote:
Quoting Kathy:
Quote:
The reason I don't contribute new releases is because I seldom buy movies when they first come out.


I think this may be one of the big reasons contributions *appear* to have slowed down whereas (as Ken says) they have actually been quite consistent. I would guess that lot of people (certainly including myself) with large collections have realised that the difference in price between a DVD when they bought it and when they finally watch it is quite significant so whereas lots of us used to purchase on day of release we now wait until the price drops significantly (to a point where it probably won't drop much more) - in my case for DVDs about 1/3 RRP, BDs about 1/2 RRP saving significant money but meaning new releases don't hit the database so quickly.

Also (and this is backed up by mreeder50's comment plus my own observations of what *has* been contributed) collectors ie. the sort of people more likely to use DVDP (not the general public) have tended to move to Blu-ray for the blockbuster title releases so I often see the BD contributed quite early but the DVD not for months so if you enter the EAN/UPC for the DVD you won't see anything about the new title.


To add to this and to clarify my previous post as I should have been more clear, from my perspective there seems to be more placeholder Blu-ray profiles (title, release date, very basic info) which never get updated with the actual release data or cover images than in years past.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorThe Movieman
DVDP User Since 2007
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 2,550
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
There is something to this. I was surprised to see my initial contribution for Get Hard Blu-ray hadn't been updated with cast, crew or a box set ID for the DVD copy (which I just contributed today).
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
Aim high. Ride the wind.
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 6,463
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting rdodolak:
Quote:
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
I'm curious what the problems are that you refer to? I don't mean to try to change your opinion, I just don't understand the point, so I am asking merely for clarification, not to argue.


My comment wasn't meant to be a knock on your program and it would certainly be useful for some of us.  However, if this were to be integrated into the DVD Profiler program, as a standard feature, I can see it causing more issues than not.  It's likely most users won't purchase the required software to take advantage of this feature.  I could also see users being confused as to why a feature isn't working properly if they don't have the required third-party software.  Then there is also the legality aspect of such programs, from the studios' perspective, in the US.

I see. I didn't interpret your comment in a negatve way. As I said,  I was just trying to learn something, which I did by reading your post. So thanks.

But I still need to go and remind myself why AnyDVD is needed anyway. i can't imagine thst it is illegal to extract encoded metadata. Every DVD player software has to do this (e.g Power DVD, Windows Media Center).
Thanks for your support.
Free Plugins available here.
Advanced plugins available here.
Hey, new product!!! BDPFrog.
 Last edited: by mediadogg
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 1,646
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
But I still need to go and remind myself why AnyDVD is needed anyway. i can't imagine thst it is illegal to extract encoded metadata. Every DVD player software has to do this (e.g Power DVD, Windows Media Center).


I would need to go back and look too on the specifics but BD-Java discs may be more of a problem since it's more of a walled garden/sand boxed approach.  I believe some of the info can only be retrieved/accessed once the data has been decrypted.  To do that you need a decryption key.  I guess it could be done if Invelos paid for a license or the encryption can be broken via third-party software, such as AnyDVD, but it's considered a US legal issue.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
Aim high. Ride the wind.
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 6,463
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageDirect link to this postReply with quote
Thanks again. But my original automation idea has gone the way of the proverbial ""lead balloon". It seems that the most prolific contributors want it just as it is - do it by hand or die trying! 

Actually it was good to learn this. That explains why I get very little feedback on DVDPca.
Thanks for your support.
Free Plugins available here.
Advanced plugins available here.
Hey, new product!!! BDPFrog.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 1,646
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
Thanks again. But my original automation idea has gone the way of the proverbial ""lead balloon". It seems that the most prolific contributors want it just as it is - do it by hand or die trying! 

Actually it was good to learn this. That explains why I get very little feedback on DVDPca.


I need to check out DVDPca again.  I believe I tried it out when you were first working on the concept which was quite a while ago.  It would help speed up the contribution process though to get more profiles submitted with more data.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
France Posts: 4,479
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
It seems that the most prolific contributors want it just as it is - do it by hand or die trying! 

I also think people love difficulties. Rules ask to add spelling mistakes in names, creating fake variants, obliging people to open common name threads, then wait several years before getting usable results, then correct hundreds of profiles. Just asking for a rule change requesting correct spelling would avoid all this, but it would not be fun...
Images from movies
 Last edited: by surfeur51
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,694
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
Thanks again. But my original automation idea has gone the way of the proverbial ""lead balloon". It seems that the most prolific contributors want it just as it is - do it by hand or die trying! 

Well, DVDPca was a great idea. However, it doesn't (and can't) help with the really tedious stuff; cast, crew, studios and overview. I find DVDPca helpful when there are lots of subtitle tracks and audio tracks. But since I mostly profile older and/or minor titles, that is seldom a problem for me.
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
Aim high. Ride the wind.
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 6,463
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
Thanks again. But my original automation idea has gone the way of the proverbial ""lead balloon". It seems that the most prolific contributors want it just as it is - do it by hand or die trying! 

Well, DVDPca was a great idea. However, it doesn't (and can't) help with the really tedious stuff; cast, crew, studios and overview. I find DVDPca helpful when there are lots of subtitle tracks and audio tracks. But since I mostly profile older and/or minor titles, that is seldom a problem for me.

Yeah, I couldn't figure out a way to automate that. OCR was too inaccurate. I was hoping someday to add your ideas - those two clever tools, but I wasn't sure it was worth the effort. Your stuff works fine without being integrated.

But back to basics. It seems to me that if DVD Profiler can give me a message "Inserted Disc not recognized ....", then it could do more to capture the information that is already there - whatever it is. Today, the contributor has to add everything - even stuff that could have automatically been determined within seconds from the disc that had already been inserted.
Thanks for your support.
Free Plugins available here.
Advanced plugins available here.
Hey, new product!!! BDPFrog.
 Last edited: by mediadogg
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,694
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
It seems to me that if DVD Profiler can give me a message "Inserted Disc not recognized ....", then it could do more to capture the information that is already there - whatever it is.

Well, much of the interpretation of the data relies on assumptions, and I'm guessing that Ken feels that any data that Profiler picks up should be 100% reliable.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe that DVDPca assumes that the longest track on the disc is the main feature. And it usually is. But not always. There are documentaries that are longer than the main feature.

And even when DVDPca identifies the main feature correctly it assumes that the audio tracks and subtitle tracks are correctly marked, which isn't necessarily the case.

I would think that users that visit these forums and that download DVDPca are usually aware that encoded data isn't 100% reliable, and would check that the results seem plausible. So that's not a big deal when it comes to DVDPca. More casual users, though, would probably take data at face value if provided directly by DVD Profiler.

That said, I'm sure that there is some information that Profiler could reliably pick up, for example region information for DVDs.

Finally, let me just say that I'm extremely impressed with what you have managed to accomplish with DVDPca. I can't imagine how many hours of research and experimentation it has taken to take it to where it is today. It's just a pity that the DVD (and BD) standards do not include better metadata.
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
    Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next