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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Shane |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Graveworm: Quote:
Not having Shane this hardly affects me, but as you say it was carried over from before the need to document sources. Now you HAVE to document to change cast and crew, what have you done to ensure that your removals are correct? Have you at least found headshots for the actors concerned to satisfy yourself that they are not there? If you haven't then your undocumented changes breach the rules You of course know older films were far less generous with credits so long real uncredited lists are not uncommon.
As for being similar to IMDB that doesn't mean that is the source, it may be unrelated or even inspired by which would also be OK. Before you shout if I see that IMDB lists John Smith As John Doe uncredited I can watch the film and obtain that same information for myself. The source would not be IMDB, the source would be the film, IMDB just gave me a clue as to where to look. Yeah, right. It's just a happy freakin' coincidence that all the uncredited entries match up with entries in the IMDB list, line for line. I swear, I think certain people would do damn near anything to keep that garbage in the database, and try to justify it. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting kahless: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
That's another damn lie...
Listen up, you dumb bastard...
Rifter, whatever your opinon is, you have the right to express this. But your cadence of insults is hard to tolerate. I do not know whether you are a young boor or an embittered old man. Nevertheless I don't care. But we should all keep a minimum standard of reciprocative respect in these forums. If you are not able to agree to this, please play your games elsewhere and stop your political riots in these forums.
BTW: you cannot insult or flame me; only friends can do that!
SCNR!! 
Well, pardon me for offending anyone. But how many times does he get to make derogatory remarks about me, about my opinions, about my motives? He hasn't contributed anything of substance for as long as I can remember - unless you count insults and bile as substance. He attacks whatever ideas Skip or I put up, looking down his nose as if he were God's gift to the movies.
I'm tired of dealing with this jerk. I'm tired of his abusive tactics and attitude. I don't start this stuff, but I don't let bums like him push me around either. So, you think I'm the one at fault here? That's your perogative. Don't expect me to agree with it. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | I got tired of reading this thread without some context to judge it by so I went and added the film to my db.
While Rifter is exagerating the ratio of credited cast to uncredited cast, it's 21:11 not 12:24, he is correct that it is an exact match to the IMDb cast list...credited and uncredited alike...with the exception of one voice only role.
While I would not have removed the uncredited cast, mainly because I don't compare profiler and IMDb data, Rifter is well within Ken's statement that I mentioned earlier in this thread. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 813 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
I got tired of reading this thread without some context to judge it by so I went and added the film to my db.
While Rifter is exagerating the ratio of credited cast to uncredited cast, it's 21:11 not 12:24, he is correct that it is an exact match to the IMDb cast list...credited and uncredited alike...with the exception of one voice only role.
While I would not have removed the uncredited cast, mainly because I don't compare profiler and IMDb data, Rifter is well within Ken's statement that I mentioned earlier in this thread. Exact match... with the exception...  So not an exact match then...  | | | Andy 
"Credited as" Names Database |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lopek: Quote:
Exact match... with the exception...
So not an exact match then... I am sorry but it is painfully obvious where the existing cast list came from. If you want to hang your hat on the one missing role, that is your right...it is not something I would do. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 813 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am not, and have not, arguing that the info likely came from IMDb. But Ken's ruling was a "carbon copy", which this contribution is not. If we are going to go for "almost a carbon copy", who is to decide what is "almost"? IMO it just can't work. | | | Andy
"Credited as" Names Database |
| | Registered: April 7, 2007 | | Posts: 357 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Yeah, right. It's just a happy freakin' coincidence that all the uncredited entries match up with entries in the IMDB list, line for line. I swear, I think certain people would do damn near anything to keep that garbage in the database, and try to justify it. It's only garbage if it's wrong, you have made no effort to ascertain if it is or it isn't. It would be similar if the submitter used the IMDB to get a clue as to uncredited cast. If as Unicus says it's an exact match then of course you CAN remove it. I'd make the effort to verify it one way or the other if accuracy was that important to me. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lopek: Quote:
I am not, and have not, arguing that the info likely came from IMDb. But Ken's ruling was a "carbon copy", which this contribution is not.
If we are going to go for "almost a carbon copy", who is to decide what is "almost"? IMO it just can't work. Nonsense. One difference out of 11 doesn't mean that the list wasn't taken from IMDB - especially if the difference is a "voice only" role. You're picking at nits to make Rifter look bad. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 813 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting kdh1949: Quote:
You're picking at nits to make Rifter look bad. Strange, I thought I was stating an opinion based on what Ken said... but thanks for correcting me on what my thoughts were.  | | | Andy
"Credited as" Names Database |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | I've got to agree with Graveworm on this one - good data is good data.
Who's to say that the original profiler didn't use a reliable source for their information and whoever contribued to IMDB used the same source?
I'd like to know that data was bad before I voted for it to be removed. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lopek: Quote:
I am not, and have not, arguing that the info likely came from IMDb. But Ken's ruling was a "carbon copy", which this contribution is not.
If we are going to go for "almost a carbon copy", who is to decide what is "almost"? IMO it just can't work. I understand what you are saying...I just don't agree. There are 33 actors in the IMDB cast list and 32 in the Profiler version. The 32 that are included in the profiler cast list were exact matches to the IMDb cast list. It is obvious, to me, that the entire cast list came from IMDb...with the noted exception of the voice only role which was a credit for a single spoken line. 32 out of 33 was enough to convince me...you obviously feel otherwise. I will not speculate as to your motives but I do think you are splitting that hair rather thin.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 813 |
| | Posted: | | | | But the point here Unicus is not whether it is enough to convince you or not. Ken did not give permission remove info that you are "convinced" is from IMDb (and any third party database), he gave permission to remove data that was a "carbon copy" - which this is not. As such imo it should not be removed. Now if the ruling was about being convinced or not, then that is a completely different question, and may just have a different answer  | | | Andy
"Credited as" Names Database |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lopek: Quote:
Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:
You're picking at nits to make Rifter look bad.
Strange, I thought I was stating an opinion based on what Ken said... but thanks for correcting me on what my thoughts were. You're quite welcome. But I was stating my opinion, which I foolishly thought I was entitled to. I guess you have an exclusive right to an opinion. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | Registered: March 24, 2007 | | Posts: 179 |
| | Posted: | | | | Folks,
Why must we continue to berate each other I am sure Ken and Gerri have seen enough to make an informed decision. FWIW I still think Rifter is correct here but I can see the other side too. If I had my way we would have no uncredited actors in the DB at all. I personally do not use cast lists for anything but that does not mean that I do not think they should be in the database for those that do. Ken and Gerri will do what is right here.
Lets let the process work. | | | | Brian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lopek: Quote:
But the point here Unicus is not whether it is enough to convince you or not.
Ken did not give permission remove info that you are "convinced" is from IMDb (and any third party database), he gave permission to remove data that was a "carbon copy" - which this is not. As such imo it should not be removed.
Now if the ruling was about being convinced or not, then that is a completely different question, and may just have a different answer This is what he said: "If you believe the uncredited entries are a carbon copy of a third party source, and the existing contribution note history doesn't supply a source, you may remove them, but are not required to do so." I originally hung my hat on the phrase 'carbon copy'...which it seems you are doing as well. But, there is that pesky 'if you believe' that he stuck at the beginning... As I said, I would not have removed them. I don't compare the cast list to anything but the credits when I do an audit. If there are uncredited actors listed in the profile I just leave them be. Ken said we 'may' remove them, not we 'have' to...so I don't. Rifter chose to remove them and I think, in this case, Ken's statement supports him doing so. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
I originally hung my hat on the phrase 'carbon copy'...which it seems you are doing as well. But, there is that pesky 'if you believe' that he stuck at the beginning... If you want to go with "if you believe" then we should remove all uncredited and all role names and start over. You'll always be able to find someone who "believes" the data came from IMDb. Also, the fact that most of the names in the Invelos record match most of the names at IMDb doesn't conclusively mean that the data came from IMDb. I just did an audit of a TV series and provided an update to both Invelos and IMDb. As soon as everything's accepted, by that standard, my TV series could be removed from Invelos for looking too much like IMDb. I've done that many times with films. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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