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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | With the current system, we have a few titles that have unsatisfying dates per the rules. But if we change the system to "fix" some, won't we find that we "break" others and end up with unsatisfying results on those films? And as Cliff pointed out, neither option "fixes" The Big Sleep situation.
And do we really have all that many disputes about production years? The biggest one I recall is pre-rules and that was over the Star Wars Trilogy. Another pre-rules discussion was over Fantasia 2000. But what else beyond that has been an argument?
I would like to see Production Year remain as it is. If a new field of copyright date is provided, that's fine. Just leave Production Year as-is. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 810 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
With the current system, we have a few titles that have unsatisfying dates per the rules. But if we change the system to "fix" some, won't we find that we "break" others and end up with unsatisfying results on those films? And as Cliff pointed out, neither option "fixes" The Big Sleep situation.
And do we really have all that many disputes about production years? The biggest one I recall is pre-rules and that was over the Star Wars Trilogy. Another pre-rules discussion was over Fantasia 2000. But what else beyond that has been an argument?
I would like to see Production Year remain as it is. If a new field of copyright date is provided, that's fine. Just leave Production Year as-is. But if what we enter is the year of first showing the name of the field should be changed. With the current system, some of us just ignore the rules and enter the copyright date or whatever year is listed on the case. pdf | | | Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Changing the name to "Release Year" would be ok as that matches the data that's been entered already. As long as people don't confuse that phrase with DVD Release Date.  "Theatrical Release" doesn't work since not every DVD contains something that was released to theaters. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Copyright date works better for one simple reason. Hal's suggestion requires research and the use of third party datasources which have already proven to be questionable....at best. More ARGUMENTS...that is bad. Copyright date exists on the disc as first hand information.
Skip Maybe I am missing something but I don't see Hal's suggestion requiring research. Hal is suggesting that the current field be renamed and we get a new field for the copyright date. Neither of those suggestions requires any research or the use of third party datasources.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Theatrical release requires research, I am not referring to his renaming. The concept of Theatrical release can require research, obviously for 2007 films i think in MOST, perhaps not all, we could agree on that. But older films can become problematic and the research sources are inconsistent. Am I really that hard to understand or are you just taking me too literally.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am confused because we are supposed to be doing that research already. Hal's suggestion doesn't change that. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | OK, let me make it CRYSTAL CLEAR, I think probably the best answer is to use Copyright Date PERIOD. That is data that is readily available to ALL users and requires no additional research, especially research which is often conflicting from source to source. <shakes head>
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Theatrical release requires research, I am not referring to his renaming. The concept of Theatrical release can require research, obviously for 2007 films i think in MOST, perhaps not all, we could agree on that. But older films can become problematic and the research sources are inconsistent. That's very true, and I noticed that even for some more recent movie (for instance: 1999 on some sites, 2000 on others, copyright 1999). | | | | -- Enry |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 820 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
OK, let me make it CRYSTAL CLEAR, I think probably the best answer is to use Copyright Date PERIOD. That is data that is readily available to ALL users and requires no additional research, especially research which is often conflicting from source to source. <shakes head>
Skip If you think that trying to work out the Theatrical Release Date for a film is difficult and using the Copyright Date is easier, check this article out about Australian Copyright Law for films: http://www.artslaw.com.au/LegalInformation/Copyright/04OldFilms.asp One example: Copyright for films in Australia lasts for the life of the author plus 50 years for films made prior to 1968. The author (s) for this purpose will be the screenwriter and director. It is doubtful however that any film has Copyright prior to 1968 unless it can be categorised as a dramatic work as defined by the act. We can't even agree on Birth Years here, let alone the date of death plus 50 of the author who dies last. This is but one example. Every country, let alone region or locality has different copyright laws. This is a can of worms you don't want to open. What are you going to put in the field when there is no copyright. <shakes head> | | | | Last edited: by Telecine |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | good point Telecine I'd never thought of that - there are a lot of "public domain" titles out there on DVD.
Although these titles were in copyright at one point I guess, in essence we don't need to work out when copyright ends, we only need to know when it started - which should be a lot easier. |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 820 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
good point Telecine I'd never thought of that - there are a lot of "public domain" titles out there on DVD.
Although these titles were in copyright at one point I guess, in essence we don't need to work out when copyright ends, we only need to know when it started - which should be a lot easier. Guess what? In Australia The Act provides that copyright will last for 50 years after the film’s first publication (ie made public) for films made after 1968. We are back to the Theatrical Release Date.  | | | | Last edited: by Telecine |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 820 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
OK, let me make it CRYSTAL CLEAR, I think probably the best answer is to use Copyright Date PERIOD. That is data that is readily available to ALL users and requires no additional research, especially research which is often conflicting from source to source. <shakes head>
Skip Quoting the Contribution Rules: "The authoritative source for information submitted should be the DVD itself. Please don't submit content from a third party database, and always verify the specifications printed on the cover. In both cases, errors abound, so always verify the information directly from the DVD whenever possible." All of a sudden we are going to trust what is printed on the cover are we? <shakes head> |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't think Skip is talking about that copyright date. I think he's talking about the one in the actual film credits itself.
That's why he think it's a much more reliable source for a year than anywhere else. | | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 820 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
I don't think Skip is talking about that copyright date. I think he's talking about the one in the actual film credits itself.
That's why he think it's a much more reliable source for a year than anywhere else. Mmmm...don't know that you are always going to find the current or even orginal copyright information there. |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | These days it's usually at the very, very end of the end credits just after all the dolby and mpaa logos and stuff.
On older films (going back to at least the 30s) you're more likely to find it in small print under the title or listed under the production credits.
I have to admit, you'll probably find a copyright year somewhere in the credits on almost all films - it's the silents that need looking into - I'm at work so can't check mine at the moment.
Edit: and you have to remember, we're not looking for current or original copyright - we're looking for the copyright year of that print on the DVD. So if there's a year in the credits - that's the one we use. | | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
I don't think Skip is talking about that copyright date. I think he's talking about the one in the actual film credits itself.
That's why he think it's a much more reliable source for a year than anywhere else. This is what I think too. This is where I take the date on my contribution. Anyway we have to check the credit for the cast, so it's not that hard to wait 5 second for getting the copyright info and that fits the rules since the first source is the movie itself. |
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