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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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Importing data from online resources like IMDB |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote: Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote: Seems to me imdb does a lot on purpose too. I am thinking Role names that the cast plays. They will purposely increase the role played explaining what they feel the role should be instead of using what is in the credits. To me this makes imdb very inaccurate. And purposely so. This is not mistakes. This must be sabotage too then? This is very different. There is no database function with roles (sorting, filtering, searching, linking) so it is not necessary to have a specific form. And IMDb roles are not errors, they are just "different" : Errol Flynn may be Robin, Robin Hood or Robin of Locksley, all those roles are correct and preserve database functions. But one error with the name, and you loose all functions. Different forms for correct roles are acceptable. Names that do not exist are not. It is very different in YOUR opinion. As I was trying to show it depends on what you are looking for. For your purposes it may be fine. For my purposes (and Invelos' for that matter... as they decided to do it differently) imdb is very inaccurate... even to imdb's own rules as StaNDarD has just showed. | | | Pete |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting StaNDarD: Quote: Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote: Seems to me imdb does a lot on purpose too. I am thinking Role names that the cast plays. They will purposely increase the role played explaining what they feel the role should be instead of using what is in the credits. That's not totally true. IMDb rules are quite close to Invelos rules.
Quote: Peoples names:
General Rule: The primary name for a person in the IMDb is the one by which they are most often credited.
* John Wayne was once credited as Duke Morrison, and even though that's closer to his birth name of Marion Michael Morrison, his primary name in the database is John Wayne. * We make an exception to the rule if we have reason to believe someone will be using a different name for all future credits. For example, if they changed their name because of marriage or have registered a new professional name with the relevant guild. * Such changes are made only for people with active careers. In the past, we required at least one onscreen credit with the new name; while that is still preferable, it is no longer a strict requirement.
Character names:
Wherever possible, we list character names as they appear in the on-screen credits. We make occasional exceptions when character names are not listed on-screen or when the character descriptions in the end titles include spoilers, but as a rule we try to stick to credits as closely as possible. If you don't know what is the on-screen character name or one isn't listed, here are some guidelines to help with character name submissions and corrections:
* Please omit redundant information/irrelevant details: Ralph Fiennes' character in Red Dragon is called Francis Dolarhyde, and that's how he's listed in the credits. It's simply overkill to have him listed as "Francis Dolarhyde/The Tooth Fairy/The Red Dragon" even though those are factually correct descriptions. * Names are usually enough and character name shouldn't be descriptive, unless absolutely necessary to identify the actor (i.e., if a role doesn't have a name, someone may be identified as "Man in Van" or "Woman with Umbrella"). * Avoid extra embellishments/repetitions/nicknames unless they are part of the credited character name: it's enough to list Robert Patrick as John Doggett in the "X-Files" TV series, instead of "Special Agent Jonathan Jay 'John' Doggett"; Jeri Ryan played Seven of Nine on "Star Trek: Voyager", not "Seven of Nine, Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix 01, aka Annika Hansen"; Edward Norton played Will Graham in Red Dragon, not "William Graham" or "Special Agent Graham" or "FBI Special Agent William 'Will' Graham"; Matt LeBlanc plays Joey Tribbiani in "Friends", not "Joseph 'Joey' Francis Tribbiani". * If an actor is listed more than once in the credits for playing multiple roles, list them once in the position of their first appearance (see cast orders), and separate the other roles in the character field with slashes, e.g., Role1/Role2/Role3 (This refers to the actor's first appearance in the cast list rather than the appearance order of the multiple characters). Please do not put spaces either side of the slashes. * Whether the extra info is accurate or not doesn't matter - Robert Englund's character in the Nightmare on Elm Street films is known as Freddy Kruger, not Frederick Kruger or Frederick 'Freddy' Kruger, even though Freddy is probably the diminutive form for Frederick.
So in general the rules are quite the same, but IMDb allows a few exceptions. The big problem on IMDb is, that people don't respect the rules in a more regular way than they do here. See the sentence I put in bold. That is what I meant by my comment. Not the owners/rules makers of imdb... but the people doing it does this on purpose. As they prefer what I see as gibberish non-sense over accuracy. And it seems despite the rules imdb themselves don't really want to follow those rules as I have tried in the past to fix the role names of several of the movies I have to match the credits... and none of them were accepted changes. | | | Pete |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,819 |
| Posted: | | | | Seeing as I've just read all five pages of this thread, I will throw my OPINION (I STRESS that the following is ONLY my opinion. It is NOT a statement of fact!!! I say this for the few people here who will twist my words to make it sound like I'm stating a fact!). Now, here's my personal view... People are lazy when it comes to this sort of 'leisure' database. If it's not work; in my experience, few people can be bothered. There are exceptions (myself and a few others) who actually ENJOY data entry. Who enjoy the process of 'creating' a profile or bringing a profile to a finished state. When I contribute I always do a full audit. It's just the way I am. To do anything less would simply go against who I am. Kathy states earlier that 'giving back to the community' is what this database is about; and, in my opinion, she is totally correct. I do complete audits so that the next person to look at that profile MAY not have to do anything to it. Or they may just do some tweaking; or add some Credited As information I may have missed. Very simply: my goal as a contributor is to give anyone who buys the same discs as me a 'ready made' profile. I also know I'm in a severe minority. If it wasn't for the fact that I get enjoyment out of doing it I would have stopped long ago. Why? Because people are lazy. For every Addicted2DVD, T!M, MadMartian, Parsec etc, etc, etc there are hundreds (or maybe thousands) of users who really can't be bothered to contribute. The just want to scan their little barcodes (can't even be bothered to type!) and get a full profile downloaded. They want a program that tells them what they own, where they bought it and when they watched it at the most. In my opinion (and the opinion of many users of similar programs I have spoken to). I stopped participating in this forum because I got sick and tired of the same old debates happening over, and over, and over again. Never reaching a conclusion. Never solving anything. So, now, I contribute to the best of my ability in the hope that the next lazy bugger who downloads it MIGHT just appreciate that it took me some time to do it. The one thing I now longer expect ANYONE else to do is any damned work for themselves (please remove yourself from this statement if you've EVER contributed!!! ) Seriously though, what do I care if someone else contributes? I don't. I know that every single disc I own has (or will be once watched) be 100% edited by me. It will then be submitted to the database. I will then backup my database. I will protect my data. The rest of you can do what you want. On topic - you start allowed IMDB rubbish and I stop using DVDProfiler completely!!! If I want IMDB I will visit their site. |
| Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,730 |
| Posted: | | | | Thanks for this opinion.
(It's almost entirely shared) | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up! But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| Registered: March 18, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,460 |
| Posted: | | | | @Pantheon, I for one, am in constant awe, admiration and appreciation for this work that you and others do. I am not "lazy," by any means, but I absolutely do not have the skills, aptitude or patience to do it myself. So, kudos to you and the others. I am enjoying the fruits of your efforts almost every day. | | | Thanks for your support. Free Plugins available here. Advanced plugins available here. Hey, new product!!! BDPFrog. | | | Last edited: by mediadogg |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,819 |
| Posted: | | | | Just to clarify.
I've got very 'zen' about the whole contribution thing.
mediadogg, my opinion is now this: if you contribute even ONE small bit of data to the database; then you are helping. That's all I could ask for.
I used to be "stop being lazy; do full audits all of you!". Not any more. Waste of time and energy.
But, to ask people to do one or two small things when they have time isn't so much to ask. Even if that change is to correct a spelling mistake in the Overview or correct an audio track.
So, if you've ever contributed you're not lazy.
The true lazy people are the ones who take and NEVER give back. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | You would be surprised at how happy I am to read that Neil. About the only thing that I didn't care for with you was that attitude of you are lazy if you don't do "Full Audits." You probably remember that we have argued about that point before. Anyway... when I read that a huge smile appeared on my face. And had to say how thrilled I was and to give you a | | | Pete |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,272 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote: The true lazy people are the ones who take and NEVER give back. But they did, when they forked over the money to Ken. I think it's going a bit far to call them lazy, as there are other factors involved. The first and foremost is that it can be somewhat intimidating to contribute. I didn't contribute for years because of the attitude of some people in the forums. I'd encourage anyone to contribute , but I don't hold it against those that don't. Quoting Pantheon: Quote: I used to be "stop being lazy; do full audits all of you!". Not any more. Waste of time and energy. Being in Canada it's probably right around 50% if a title is going to be in the database. So when it's not I have to take cover scans, import data from a similar release. In these cases I do verify audio, video, features, subtitles, etc. One thing I don't do unless needed & not available from another profile is cast & crew. I really don't care about common names or BYs, but follow the rules as closely as I can. I am still trying to clean up my db and fix incorrect submissions, I have much to do and can't be worried about doing a full audit for every submission. If I'm aware of an issue I'll fix it, but I'm not going to go in depth every time I touch a profile. I'm happy to share my work with others, but I'm not going to spend my time doing full audits at the expense of getting my own db cleaned up. I just wish the system was designed better, seems so silly to have to contribute the same data over and over again because the UPC is different, even though the film is exactly the same. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707 Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800 BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free) HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server |
| Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,018 |
| Posted: | | | | @Pantheon: Many thanks for your opinion, which I happen to share close to 100%. @DoubleDownAgain: If anything should change in DVDP 4.0, if that ever were to see the light of day, I would indeed advocate a distinction between movie-related data and media release-related data which would make entering the same data time and again superfluous. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | While I would like to see this... as it would definitely save SOME work. There would have to be some way of having it separated when needed. As it has been proven that different cuts of a film can have different credits... not to mention stuff like when the credits are translated into different languages. Considering it all there would be quite a few exceptions. | | | Pete |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,272 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote: While I would like to see this... as it would definitely save SOME work. There would have to be some way of having it separated when needed. As it has been proven that different cuts of a film can have different credits... not to mention stuff like when the credits are translated into different languages. Considering it all there would be quite a few exceptions. Of course, but they could be entered as separate entries for each unique distinction. I just took a quick look and there are about 80 entries for the Matrix, and about 100 for Avatar. I put in some random titles and most had around 10 entries a piece. So while there would be work to do to clean the data, think of the amount of work it would save. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707 Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800 BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free) HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 2,337 |
| Posted: | | | | People who doesn't contribute... I wouldn't call them lazy, but I don't wan't hear their whining about the database quality eather. |
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Posts: 1,982 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Kulju: Quote: People who doesn't contribute... I wouldn't call them lazy, but I don't wan't hear their whining about the database quality eather. This is one of the reason why I've resumed my contribution works last year... at least part of. I was sure surprise to see that a large part of what I purchased while I was away wasn't in the database (wich is always the case more often than not...). At least now nobody can accuse me of being a lazy taker anymore when I have a small critic since I give ton of full audit who wouldn't be in the database without me and I take nothing (what would be the point for me? I do full audit and my profiles countain more data than what is online). Of course most of my contributions are unseen, but that's life and if that help a couple of users I'm happy with it. | | | Last edited: by Jimmy S |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting mediadogg: Quote: I am not "lazy," by any means, but I absolutely do not have the skills, aptitude or patience to do it myself. In fact, there are different ways to help the community, and plugin developpers are among the most usefull users for the others. Thank you for your work, and also thank you to all those who share their layouts, reports, headshots and everything that helps to improve dvdprofiler. As for me, all this work is much more important than profile contributions that I do not use since rules, as they are, make them quite useless for me. In fact, it takes less time to built a correct profile from scratch than to correct a profile that follows rules. | | | Images from movies |
| Registered: June 1, 2013 | Posts: 217 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
I always do a full audit. It's just the way I am. To do anything less would simply go against who I am.
Same here. I actually enjoy doing it which is one reason that I have been a contributor to IMDB (20-25,000 items annually) for years. I can spend most of a day looking up film credit details. I also spend a lot of time online looking for extra large vintage posters to replace crummy DVD covers. Even before the internet existed, I kept detailed notes on films I watched/owned on VHS. I do not contribute to the so-called Invelos "database", nor do I use it...so, one thing offsets the other. Since I don't use it, I am not "whinning" about it, just stating my opinion, as a paid member, same as everyone else. I like DVDP the program/software, but to me, the "database" is a joke.... I've seen enough to be convinced it is inept. My final words on the subject, whatever database you use, invelos, IMDB, BFI, TCM, etc., do some reasearch....check and compare, why take somebody elses word for it?...nothing like doing it yourself. One other note, original poster asked ".... Therefore I would like to have an option that make it possible to import the data from an other online source as for example IMDB." Why anyone should care, or deny someone else this option is beyond me. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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