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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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Should Effects Company Dividers be Allowed? |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 2,692 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote:
Quoting pauls42:
Quote:
I wasn't aware that it was being requested that they are compulsory to use these? But merely allowed.
You are free to not add them - but they shouldn't be removed if they are already there from a previous contribution (and you are making a new crew contribution). They are additional information (and the poll indicates wanted by just under 50% of the voters).
You are of course able to remove these from your own database.
Who said anything about them being mandated? I merely stated my preference that they not be in the on-line database. And if they do become part of the on-line in their current form it would be enough extra effort on my part to deal with (because it wouldn't be part of my local) i'd keep crew contributions local rather than bother with it.
I simply see no value in company names in dividers and not linked to crew names. (Get database fields linking the profiles/crew/companies then it might have merit.)
Just my opinion. and I was making the point that it wouldn't have any affect on your contributions. You don't have to add them before contributing. | | | | Paul |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote:
Who said anything about them being mandated? I merely stated my preference that they not be in the on-line database. And if they do become part of the on-line in their current form it would be enough extra effort on my part to deal with (because it wouldn't be part of my local) i'd keep crew contributions local rather than bother with it.
I simply see no value in company names in dividers and not linked to crew names. (Get database fields linking the profiles/crew/companies then it might have merit.)
Just my opinion. While I understand what you are saying, the same could be said for other data as well. Speaking for myself, 90% of the crew credits have little to no value. While I might care that a film was directed or produced by a particular person, I honestly don't care who the editor was...or the DoP or the Sound Designer or the makeup artist, etc...but if I want to update the information I do care about, I have to add all that stuff as well. I see no reason to exclude some data simply because some people don't want it. If that were our measuring stick, we would end up with an empty db. JMHO.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | My issue here is simply the rules.
As it stand the rules can be interpreted in 2 ways - to allow or disallow these kind of dividers. This ambiguity leads to a split on the voting on a profile. Now, I personally NEVER vote NO to a contribution if the rules can be interpreted two different ways (because there is always a possibility that my interpretation could be wrong) - I always vote Neutral.
However, other users here are so confident that they are correct they feel no need to err on the side of caution.
This is the ONLY reason I asked for clarification from Invelos. I will cease contributing these profiles if Ken states they are not allowed. I really is as simple as that. I won't continue to argue the merits of this system (as I see it) because I won't waste my breath.
However, as things stand there is no definitive decision and that is all I'm asking for. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
My issue here is simply the rules.
As it stand the rules can be interpreted in 2 ways - to allow or disallow these kind of dividers. This ambiguity leads to a split on the voting on a profile. Now, I personally NEVER vote NO to a contribution if the rules can be interpreted two different ways (because there is always a possibility that my interpretation could be wrong) - I always vote Neutral. I actually don't think it can be interpreted 2 ways. The rule concerning Studio/Company Names has to do with credits, not dividers. The way it is written, you can not have 'Name: ILM, Role: Special Effects'. Nothing, in the rules, prohibits the use of dividers. Quote:
However, other users here are so confident that they are correct they feel no need to err on the side of caution.
This is the ONLY reason I asked for clarification from Invelos. I will cease contributing these profiles if Ken states they are not allowed. I really is as simple as that. I won't continue to argue the merits of this system (as I see it) because I won't waste my breath.
However, as things stand there is no definitive decision and that is all I'm asking for. Agreed, a definitive answer would be nice. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
I actually don't think it can be interpreted 2 ways. The rule concerning Studio/Company Names has to do with credits, not dividers. But group dividers are only used for names that show up in the credits, and if we aren't allowed to use Studio/Company Names we can not use that for dividers. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Daddy DVD: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I actually don't think it can be interpreted 2 ways. The rule concerning Studio/Company Names has to do with credits, not dividers.
But group dividers are only used for names that show up in the credits, and if we aren't allowed to use Studio/Company Names we can not use that for dividers. Which is obviously how you interpret the rule. I disagree, obviously. Hence my request for clarification from Ken. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Daddy DVD: Quote:
But group dividers are only used for names that show up in the credits, and if we aren't allowed to use Studio/Company Names we can not use that for dividers. Dividers are mentioned twice in the rules. Once in the Cast section: "Do not include artificial actor entries to act as separators between cast lists. (e.g. "--JAPANESE CAST--"), instead use the Divider feature for this." And once in the TV Series section: "Enter Cast and Crew for each episode using standard rules, and insert dividers to separate each episode's credit list from the others. Do not list Cast and Crew outside of the dividers even if they are credited in all episodes." In both those examples, the dividers are being used for something other than names that show up in the credits. In fact, they are being used for the same exact reason that Pantheon has added them, to give the data context and meaning. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
In both those examples, the dividers are being used for something other than names that show up in the credits. In fact, they are being used for the same exact reason that Pantheon has added them, to give the data context and meaning. If the examples only show the true use for dividers, we could only use them for separating original cast from dubbing cast and for separating cast and crew from different TV serie episodes. So based on that we can not use group dividers if we wanted to, not even if they are being used for clarification. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Daddy DVD: Quote:
If the examples only show the true use for dividers, we could only use them for separating original cast from dubbing cast and for separating cast and crew from different TV serie episodes. So based on that we can not use group dividers if we wanted to, not even if they are being used for clarification. Who said they showed the only 'true use for dividers'? You made a statement claiming that dividers are only used in one situation. I was simply pointing out that, according to the examples in the rules, your statement was incorrect. While the rules point out two areas where we must use dividers, they do not tell us that those are the only times they can be used. Bottom line, this is a grey area in the rules. While some people may not like it, there is nothing in the rules that says it can't be done. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 11, 2009 | | Posts: 211 |
| | Posted: | | | | Keep the posts civil and non-personal. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | My apologies. The post just hit a nerve, but I will try harder to ignore it in the future.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
My apologies. The post just hit a nerve, but I will try harder to ignore it in the future. I may have missed something, but what are you apologising for? I can't see anything in your post that is uncivil or personal.  I think the moderator would be much better off making a statement one way or the other about whether dividers like this are allowed by the rules or not. How about it, Mr (or Ms) Moderator?  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | That is not the moderators job, north. That belongs to Ken & Gerri.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
My apologies. The post just hit a nerve, but I will try harder to ignore it in the future.
I may have missed something, but what are you apologising for?
I can't see anything in your post that is uncivil or personal. One of my posts, as well as one or two from other users, was removed. I knew it was borderline when I made it, so I wasn't surprised that it was removed. Because I knew it was borderline, I probably shouldn't have made it, hence the apology. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
Now, I personally NEVER vote NO to a contribution if the rules can be interpreted two different ways  Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
However, other users here are so confident that they are correct they feel no need to err on the side of caution. Well seen. I think this is the main problem with the voting system. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
You made a statement claiming that dividers are only used in one situation. My statement about group dividers is based on the use in practice and not on the rules. Quote:
While the rules point out two areas where we must use dividers, they do not tell us that those are the only times they can be used. Bottom line, this is a grey area in the rules. I do not think that the rule concerning Studio/Company Names is a grey area because this is mentioned in the credits section and dividers are only used for that purpose. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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