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Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeKen Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
United States Posts: 4,282
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Quoting Squirrel.God:
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Quoting Ken Cole:
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To clarify, my request wasn't directed at any single person.

So you were making a generalization?

Sorry, couldn't resist 


Try harder.









Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
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Quoting pompel9:
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Anyways, let's get back to he topic. I think that Lord of the Rings is a New Zealand production, because the production company Wingnut Films is based there. Or we could use the UK, because the book was written there, and they actually hold the copyright. The family of J. R. R. Tolkien.



Where the book was written is totally irrelevant!
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpompel9
Registered: March 13, 2007
Norway Posts: 467
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Oh, is it really????????
Because the family of J. R. R. Tolkien does hold the copyright. There wouldn't be any movie if they hadn't allowed these studios to make them.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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United States Posts: 6,635
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Quoting pompel9:
Quote:
Oh, is it really????????
Because the family of J. R. R. Tolkien does hold the copyright. There wouldn't be any movie if they hadn't allowed these studios to make them.


It is irrelevant in determining the CoO of the film's Production Company!

If you haven't been following, that is the topic of the discussion!
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,203
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Quoting pompel9:
Quote:
Oh, is it really????????
Because the family of J. R. R. Tolkien does hold the copyright. There wouldn't be any movie if they hadn't allowed these studios to make them.


Actually, Tolkien sold the movie rights while he was still alive.  He sold the film, stage and merchandise rights of 'The Hobbit' and 'The Lord of the Rings' to United Artists in 1968.  The family has no legal rights in those areas.

I found an interesting aside while doing my research...he stipulated that Disney could not be involved in any project.  He kept the right to "to veto anything from or influenced by the Disney studios (for all whose works I have a heartfelt loathing)."

Maybe it's just me, but I found that funny.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpompel9
Registered: March 13, 2007
Norway Posts: 467
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Can you please provide the URL where you found this information. Because I have heard that it was the son of J. R. R. Tolkien who sold the rights to these movies.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,203
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Quoting pompel9:
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Can you please provide the URL where you found this information. Because I have heard that it was the son of J. R. R. Tolkien who sold the rights to these movies.


From what I can tell, the movie rights were, and still are, owned by Saul Zaents.  He simply gave Jackson and New Line the license to make them.  Here are some links though.

Wikipedia Tolkien bio - Works inspired by Tolkien section: He went on to criticize the script scene by scene ("yet one more scene of screams and rather meaningless slashings"). But Tolkien was in principle open to the idea of a movie adaptation. He sold the film, stage and merchandise rights of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings to United Artists in 1968, while, guided by scepticism towards future productions, he forbade that Disney should ever be involved:

Wikipedia Peter Jackson bio - LotR section: Jackson earned the rights to a film adaptation of J. R. R. Tolkien's novel in 1997 from Saul Zaentz.  Zaentz is an American film producer and former record company executive...not related to Tolkien.

Wikipedia The Lord of the Rings film trilogy: Peter Jackson first read the book as an 18-year-old, after seeing Ralph Bakshi's 1978 animated film version. Jackson and his wife, Fran Walsh, began enquiries about the Lord of the Rings rights in 1995 and struck a deal with copyright holder Saul Zaentz and Miramax Films in January 1997 after production stalled on their King Kong remake.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpompel9
Registered: March 13, 2007
Norway Posts: 467
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Quoting Unicus69:
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Quoting pompel9:
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Can you please provide the URL where you found this information. Because I have heard that it was the son of J. R. R. Tolkien who sold the rights to these movies.


From what I can tell, the movie rights were, and still are, owned by Saul Zaents.  He simply gave Jackson and New Line the license to make them.  Here are some links though.

Wikipedia Tolkien bio - Works inspired by Tolkien section: He went on to criticize the script scene by scene ("yet one more scene of screams and rather meaningless slashings"). But Tolkien was in principle open to the idea of a movie adaptation. He sold the film, stage and merchandise rights of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings to United Artists in 1968, while, guided by scepticism towards future productions, he forbade that Disney should ever be involved:

Wikipedia Peter Jackson bio - LotR section: Jackson earned the rights to a film adaptation of J. R. R. Tolkien's novel in 1997 from Saul Zaentz.  Zaentz is an American film producer and former record company executive...not related to Tolkien.

Wikipedia The Lord of the Rings film trilogy: Peter Jackson first read the book as an 18-year-old, after seeing Ralph Bakshi's 1978 animated film version. Jackson and his wife, Fran Walsh, began enquiries about the Lord of the Rings rights in 1995 and struck a deal with copyright holder Saul Zaentz and Miramax Films in January 1997 after production stalled on their King Kong remake.


The first link didn't work. But it seems you are correct. On the other hand if you look closely on the page to the third link, on the top of the page it says: Country  New Zealand/United States.
Why do you think New Zealand is listed first?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhayley taylor
Past Contributor
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,022
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Quoting pompel9:
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On the other hand if you look closely on the page to the third link, on the top of the page it says: Country  New Zealand/United States.
Why do you think New Zealand is listed first?


Alphabetical?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDarxon
Vescere bracis meis
Registered: March 14, 2007
Germany Posts: 742
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Quoting richierich:
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Quoting pompel9:
Quote:
On the other hand if you look closely on the page to the third link, on the top of the page it says: Country  New Zealand/United States.
Why do you think New Zealand is listed first?


Alphabetical?



Less letters?
Lutz
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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Quoting Unicus69:
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Quoting northbloke:
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First chance tomorrow I'm going to submit all the LoTR films I have with a US CoO, with a change to NZ. How many no votes do you think they'll get?


Could you wait until the day after tomorrow?  I still have 233 updates left to go through as it is. 


Sure thing, I'm out on the hoy tonight anyway, so will be in no fit state to do it when I return. I'd probably end up submitting them with Poland if I tried!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Quoting northbloke:
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Hi Rifter,
I don't think you get my point. No one is denying that New Line own the rights to LoTR, and as far as I can tell, no one ever has.
But the point is that we've been told by Gerri that CoO follows the production company, and that means something completely different to rights holder. That's what the problem is, some people don't realise that.
You said yourself that WingNut "were HIRED by New Line to do a job" and that job was to produce the LoTR trilogy, making THEM the production company, not New Line.



No, that isn't how it works.  When a contractor builds a house, and hires carpenters, plumbers, laborers, etc., who actually do the physical job of building that house, he doesn't give up his right to say "I built this house."  New Line IS a production company in one aspect of what it does, and without New Line ponying up the bucks, Peter Jackson would still be relatively unknown.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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Quoting Rifter:
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Quoting northbloke:
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Hi Rifter,
I don't think you get my point. No one is denying that New Line own the rights to LoTR, and as far as I can tell, no one ever has.
But the point is that we've been told by Gerri that CoO follows the production company, and that means something completely different to rights holder. That's what the problem is, some people don't realise that.
You said yourself that WingNut "were HIRED by New Line to do a job" and that job was to produce the LoTR trilogy, making THEM the production company, not New Line.



No, that isn't how it works.  When a contractor builds a house, and hires carpenters, plumbers, laborers, etc., who actually do the physical job of building that house, he doesn't give up his right to say "I built this house."  New Line IS a production company in one aspect of what it does, and without New Line ponying up the bucks, Peter Jackson would still be relatively unknown.


I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with that. I worked for a production company for five years and it never mattered where the money came from or who commissioned us to make anything, we were still the production company and they still owned the finished product.
In order for New Line to be the dominant production company in this situation, they would have had to have done the bulk of the production work, which they didn't - WingNut did. Because CoO is based on the production company NOT the film owner, this makes LoTR New Zealand productions.
 Last edited: by northbloke
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJonM
Registered 28 Dec 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 343
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Quoting Rifter:
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No, that isn't how it works.  When a contractor builds a house, and hires carpenters, plumbers, laborers, etc., who actually do the physical job of building that house, he doesn't give up his right to say "I built this house."  New Line IS a production company in one aspect of what it does, and without New Line ponying up the bucks, Peter Jackson would still be relatively unknown.


This part of the discussion remonds me of Clerks; how the Death Star contractors must have been killed in Jedi because the job wasn't finished, and just how responsible for their fates were they!

If LoTR had been a massive flop, New Line may very well have joined in this debate and say it's NZ origin; it was all Jackson's fault!
Jon
"When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."

DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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Quoting JonM:
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This part of the discussion remonds me of Clerks; how the Death Star contractors must have been killed in Jedi because the job wasn't finished, and just how responsible for their fates were they!


I'm afraid I'm not cool enough to have watched Clerks yet, though I am sad enough to have bought it so I can say I've got it! 
But I hope you're feeling REALLY responsible for starting this topic in the first place... 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Quoting JonM:
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Quoting Addicted2DVD:
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I could be wrong... but it sounds like you are saying if the movie itself takes place in for example the UK... then the CoO should be UK?

If that is the case... I very much disagree... just because a movie is about a certain country don't mean the Country of Origin is of the country the movie plot is set in.


No, that's not what I'm saying. Otherwise "The Third Man" would get lost. Nevermind genre films like sci-fi, that defy location.

I've used broad examples, but I think about who had the initial idea and who wrote it. I briefly mentioned "United 93". American tragedy, story, actors, but recently voted Best British Film in Empire magazine, because it was a British director and writer. 

For me, origin is where it was conceived, not set. And certainly not filmed.



Oh, come on.  That's like saying Star Wars is a British film because Sir Alec Guinness is in it.  When you hire somebody it's for whatever talent they possess that you feel will accomplish your end result, be it actor, writer, director, or best boy.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
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