Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
Video details need expansion.
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMatrixTom
Buy. And be happy.
Registered: March 13, 2007
Belgium Posts: 85
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
If you vote NO, please give a reason for not wanting any expansion of details, if you vote YES, please give what is the most important for you or give additional ideas.

Things are not as simple anymore, concerning "Video", as it was during the heydays (the sole existence) of DVD(-Videos)'s. DVD's were rather 'simple', they had a (then unnamed) "standard definition", coded in MPEG-2, PAL/NTSC, had a specific aspect ratio, were anamorphic or non-anamorphic. These were about the only "factors that defined the image"; the one could be suspected, the other could be defined under the “Video”-field.

I think with HD media (Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD) times are (getting totally) different, and that combined with the sheer dedication that crept in detailing the technical specification of audio tracks, the same care is justified for "Video". The lack of details for HD media concerning Video is staggering

I want to outline some of the details I would like to see under "Video", because I think they are useful and will be a great help choosing the "ultimate edition" of a movie, since every aspect details the technical presentation on screen.

HD media are "high definition media", but they can also be employed as "high capacity media” with SD content as main feature, which makes discerning means even more appropriate. These HD media have so many technical possibilities that details are not just “something fancy”, but as needed as the details we give to every Audio track. I would connect the needed fields to a few questions we can ask here.
* SD or HD content?
* What resolution, if HD (720p/i, 1080p/i, and in the future: 4K, 8K, …)? Also, has there been upscaled?
* What codec has been used (MPEG-2, H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, SMPTE VC-1)?
* Is the Feature Film 2D/3D (Anaglyphic or Stereoscopic)? And can you choose the way to see the movie (by means of inclusion on the same disc, or extra disc)?
*Something I’d like to see optionally: the inclusion of the OAR (Original Aspect Ratio), and the option to note whether the Feature Film solely contains color shots, monochromatic (black-and-white and tinted), colorized or mixed shots (for example: red dressed little girl in Schindler’s List).

Some may have been posed as Feature Requests before, the fact that I re-iterate them underlines my opinion of evaluating and thoroughly considering them for inclusion. Note that these are just shimmering ideas, but the main lines I would like to see included are here.

What would you think? Please see this as a beginning to a larger debate as what REALLY should be included under Video, and how to do it.
 Last edited: by MatrixTom
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorStaid S Barr
Registered: Oct 16, 2003
Registered: May 9, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 1,536
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
We haven't even got as far as B/W versus Color yet, and that was introduced decades ago...
Hans
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMithi
Sushi Annihilator
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
Germany Posts: 2,217
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting MatrixTom:
Quote:
* What resolution, if HD (720p/i, 1080p/i, and in the future: 4K, 8K, …)?

Well, I have yet to see anything different from 1080p on a commercially produced BD, so it might be a moot point.
Quote:
Also, has there been upscaled?

And that would be a total documentation nightmare. How to proof that something is an upscale?

cya, Mithi
Mithi's little XSLT tinkering - the power of XML --- DVD-Profiler Mini-Wiki
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorArdos
Registered: July 31, 2008
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 2,506
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Mithi:
Quote:
Quoting MatrixTom:
Quote:
* What resolution, if HD (720p/i, 1080p/i, and in the future: 4K, 8K, …)?

Well, I have yet to see anything different from 1080p on a commercially produced BD, so it might be a moot point.
Quote:
Also, has there been upscaled?

And that would be a total documentation nightmare. How to proof that something is an upscale?

cya, Mithi


While non-1080p titles may not be common they do exist. Have a look at 5051561000591 (Doctor Who Complete Specials). The first episode is also listed as being upscaled.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNexus the Sixth
Contributor since 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,197
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Codecs and resolutions can be verified easily with the disc, but things like OAR would be a nightmare when sometimes even the director and DOP can't agree on the matter (or should that be IAR, intended aspect ratio? Maybe we need one DIAR and one DOPIAR) 

And nowadays we also have films released in multiple formats at the same time, like IMAX.
First registered: February 15, 2002
 Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
Unix works!
Registered: July 22, 2007
Posts: 348
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Forget_the_Rest:
Quote:
While non-1080p titles may not be common they do exist. Have a look at 5051561000591 (Doctor Who Complete Specials). The first episode is also listed as being upscaled.


That is because the idiots who designed the specification for Blu-ray had their collective heads up their butts and didn't include 1080p25.  So, material that is sourced 1080p25 has be be converted to 1080i25 before it can be placed onto Blu-ray.  The stupid thing is that 25p is only one frame away from 23.976/24p.

BTW, 720i doesn't exist.
Mr Video Productions
If it isn't Unix, it isn't an OS :-)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,850
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting MatrixTom:
Quote:
If you vote NO, please give a reason for not wanting any expansion of details

It's not so much that I don't want an expansion of video details as it is that I think there are many more interesting upgrades that need to see the light of day, and programming resources are limited.

---------------
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantweio
Registered: March 13, 2007
Austria Posts: 96
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Mithi:
Quote:
Quoting MatrixTom:
Quote:
* What resolution, if HD (720p/i, 1080p/i, and in the future: 4K, 8K, …)?

Well, I have yet to see anything different from 1080p on a commercially produced BD, so it might be a moot point.


Antichrist Blu Ray 1080i.
And there are many more. I really think at least this has to be in the profiler.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
Registered: June 17, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,328
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Most concerts and video documentaries on Blu-ray are 1080i (60Hz in NTSC countries and 50Hz in PAL countries)
My Home Theater
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
Unix works!
Registered: July 22, 2007
Posts: 348
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
Most concerts and video documentaries on Blu-ray are 1080i (60Hz in NTSC countries and 50Hz in PAL countries)


As indicated above, 1080i25 is the only way it will be released, because of the bonehead decision not to include 1080p25 in the Blu-ray spec.

Just as 1080p25 doesn't exist, 1080p29.97/30 doesn't exist either.  Even if video was shot at a faster 60p and converted to 30p for Blu-ray, the format is not supported.  The only 1080 progressive speeds supportsed deal with film rates (23.976 and 24).

IMHO, dumb, real dumb.
Mr Video Productions
If it isn't Unix, it isn't an OS :-)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNexus the Sixth
Contributor since 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,197
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I think it was a good decision not to include 25p because then we would have even more cheaply converted PAL broadcast sources with the 4% speed-up in Europe. Now if they want progressive they are forced to use 24p sources.
First registered: February 15, 2002
 Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
Unix works!
Registered: July 22, 2007
Posts: 348
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Kinoniki:
Quote:
I think it was a good decision not to include 25p because then we would have even more cheaply converted PAL broadcast sources with the 4% speed-up in Europe. Now if they want progressive they are forced to use 24p sources.


Ah, the speed-up could still be there in that the conversion would be to 1080i25.  Besides, you really don't want/need PAL material bumped up to 1080i.

Because HD TVs/monitors are supposed to support all of the international rates, in theory a movie should be released as 1080p24 in the UK and all HD sets would be able to display it.  But, because I suspect that studios will be cheap, they'll only make a 23.976 HD Blu-ray master and use that worldwide.

My objection is because of programs like Doctor Who, which I believe are produced in 25p, but forced to be placed on Blu-ray as interlaced.  IMHO, 25p source material should be able to be authored at 25p.

Since I can't take Doctor Who Blu-ray video and place it on my computer, I can't really tell if indeed the material is sourced at 25p.
Mr Video Productions
If it isn't Unix, it isn't an OS :-)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 3,004
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I want this, too. I wish Blu-ray had supported basically any framerate and converted as necessary. Material shot at 25 fps or 30 has to be interlaced and 16 fps, which was a common silent speed, can't bee done correctly.
 Last edited: by Ace_of_Sevens
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNexus the Sixth
Contributor since 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,197
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting MrVideo:
Quote:
Quoting Kinoniki:
Quote:
I think it was a good decision not to include 25p because then we would have even more cheaply converted PAL broadcast sources with the 4% speed-up in Europe. Now if they want progressive they are forced to use 24p sources.


Ah, the speed-up could still be there in that the conversion would be to 1080i25.  Besides, you really don't want/need PAL material bumped up to 1080i.

Because HD TVs/monitors are supposed to support all of the international rates, in theory a movie should be released as 1080p24 in the UK and all HD sets would be able to display it.  But, because I suspect that studios will be cheap, they'll only make a 23.976 HD Blu-ray master and use that worldwide.


HDTV sets existed long before Blu-ray and 24p became the general norm and broadcast HDTV is still either 50 or 60 Hz interlaced, never 24p. I agree it's not ideal but companies will take cheap short cuts and use old broadcast transfers when they can get away with it. So at least now they will have to advertise it as 1080i/50 and not real progressive HD. So people will call them out and demand new transfers in 24p, hopefully.
First registered: February 15, 2002
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I am with those that have said, good thought, BUT there are far bigger and more important fish to fry FIRST, some of which have been waiting for years.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantweio
Registered: March 13, 2007
Austria Posts: 96
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
I am with those that have said, good thought, BUT there are far bigger and more important fish to fry FIRST, some of which have been waiting for years.



I really think the HD resolutions are a big fu**ing white whale and should have highest priority.
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests Page: 1 2  Previous   Next