Note: This is NOT an explicit suggestion, as it would require a near-complete rewrite of the program, but there's really no other forum that's appropriate for this.  It's just a little brainstorming on an idea that piqued my interest, playing with it, seeing how it would affect construction of DVD profiles and the underlying database, and whether and how it would affect any longstanding issues with DVDP.  Feel free to comment or discuss, or just ignore.


The basic idea is a layered profile mechanism, with each layer supplementing or supplanting the layer below it.  The overlay effect is similar to CSS rules on web pages: the highest level element in a stack of profile layers 'wins' as far as the value at that layer (aside from a few elements, where each layer accumulates with the layers below).  If there is no explicit value at that layer, it looks down the layers until it finds a value.


The fundamental layer is the Content.  This describes the film or show to be profiled -- Star Wars, The West Wing, Ayashi no Ceres, etc.

The Content layer defines:
Locality / Country of Origin
Original Title and Identifier ("Star Wars: Return of the Jedi", "The West Wing" + "Episode 14", "Ayashi no Ceres" + "2. Tennyo no FAASUTO KISU", etc.)
* Note: each episode of a TV show would get its own Content layer; I don't yet have an idea for simplifying that
Original cast and crew (GUID linking for names, all drawn from a single Personnel table, not separate cast and crew tables).  No 'credited as'; just use the default name tied to each GUID.
Original format details (aspect ratio, color, etc)
Original Rating
Original audio language, possibly format (eg: originally broadcast on TV in stereo)
General details like production studios and genre
First theatrical release/broadcast date, or production year


The next layer up is the Rendition.  This defines a particular 'implementation' of the Content.

Examples of how a Rendition differs from Content would be things like colorized film, Pan & Scan cropping, and localized translations.

Rendition layer defines:
Locality of the rendition production (eg: US release of a Japanese anime, etc)
Edition
Video details: NTSC vs PAL, anamorphic encoding (though they may belong on the Media layer)
Override data, such as actual aspect ratio, rating, etc, that were changed specifically for this Rendition
Can override the Title and Identifier (eg: "Ayashi no Ceres" + "2. Tennyo no FAASUTO KISU" becomes "Ceres, Celestial Legend" + "2. The Angel's First Kiss")
Supplementary data, such as local dubbing cast and crew, or cast that only showed up in the Director's Cut, etc.  Can modify existing entries with 'credited as' data.
Adds the studio(s) responsible for creating this layer



The next layer up is the Media.  This is the actual physical disc that the content is stored on, and is identified by Disc ID.

Media defines:
Media Type (DVD, BD, HDDVD, etc)
Extras: Featurettes, Trailers, Easter Eggs, etc.
DVD mastering house, if applicable
Media layer can be comprised of multiple Rendition layers (eg: multiple episodes of a single TV show)



And the top layer is the Product layer.  This is the case the DVD came in, and is identified by UPC.

Product layer defines:
Product Title (eg: "The West Wing: The Complete First Season")
Cover images
Overview
Case Type
SRP
Personal data (eg: purchase location/price)
Distribution Studio
Product Release date
Product locality
Loans
A Product layer can be comprised of multiple Media layers (eg: Season 1 Collection) and/or other Product layers (aka: box sets).  Technically there's no limit on the nesting level on box sets, though it should avoid circular references, but in reality more than one nesting level would be extremely rare.



The user should be able to easily shift up and down the layers, and across the different elements within a layer (eg: switching between episodes in a TV show).  I'm thinking smartphone-'swipe' easy, not "click this tree-expander triangle and dig around like in File Explorer".



Main problem that immediately comes to mind is that there's not indisputably unique identifiers for the Content and Rendition layers.  At best you can use Locality+Title+Identifier for the Content layer, and Locality+Title+Identifier+Edition for the Rendition layer, but even that's no guarantee of uniqueness.  Maybe if Production Year was also included.  Still need to be able to look up each layer easily for inclusion in the layer above it.

Alternatively, set up GUID values for each Content and Rendition layer, similar to how the cast would get GUIDs.  Should be able to request a GUID from the Invelos server, and have the option of marking a contributed entry as a duplicate of another (primarily in the case of multiple contributions at the same time).  Duplicate GUID would not be 'freed up' after duplicate marking since you don't know how long it would take to propagate that information to all the clients.  However the ID space of GUIDs is so large that we could duplicate every single profile (including individual episodes) a hundred times and barely notice it in the GUID space, so there's no real loss.



Not sure where Review would fit in.  Movie Review value would fit at the Rendition layer, but DVD Review could be either Media or Product.  Or maybe just have a Review value at all layers (Director's Cut may be different from the original release; English release vs the Japanese release; solid packaging and great art, but poor media authoring; etc.).  So yeah, it would accumulate all layers together, similar to the studios.



There's also the opportunity for a 'User' layer.  I'm thinking a layer between the Rendition and the Media, where the user can collect multiple Renditions into a single profile (eg: all the episodes of a TV series, regardless of how they were physically released).  However I could imagine wanting a collection-based user layer above any of the base layers (eg: Set Of Renditions: all episodes of a TV show; Set of Media: all discs stored in disc changers or disc cases; Set of Products: various organizational schemes).

Technically there's also no strict requirement that a lower layer must belong to an upper layer.  There's no reason you couldn't add movie or TV episode details long before the actual DVD release, and just pack them into the appropriate media layer profile when you have a DVD to go with them.

There's a bit of inheritance (for those with familiarity with programming), but it's mostly about element composition, having lots of building blocks that can be put together as needed.

Quote:
I would probably keep it more simple with only two layers

Hmm.  It may be possible to simplify, but my reasoning for the choice of layers was so that there was as little duplication as possible.  EG:

1) Every edition or (especially) localization of a film should reference the same base Content layer, so that all the 'original' information for that film only has to be entered once.

2) Reprints or DVD vs Bluray versions, etc, may all use the same Rendition of a film.  We already know it's possible to have the exact same film printed on multiple Disc IDs; we shouldn't have to duplicate the effort of defining the rendition that was encoded on it.

3) It's not uncommon for discs to get repackaged, such as once in singles, and another release as a box set.  Any given disc should have identical information, regardless of which UPC'd package it's sold in.

4) A Product layer being able to contain another Product intrinsically sets things up to handle box sets, or box sets of multiple shows which are themselves box sets, or other oddities that are awkward to handle in the current DVDP program.



There's also things like appropriately marking elements such as locality in a reliable manner.  For example, an Australian company publishing a Japanese anime using the US dub version could be marked with localities of: Content - Japan, Rendition - US, Product - Australia.  That setup would also imply that NTSC/PAL should be on the Media layer.


Possible nitpicky stuff I could see would be credit order.  Currently we list the cast in the order credited, but if the cast list is always derived from the original Content layer, any given Rendition (localizations, in particular) may have a different listing order.  That may not be as easy to work with in terms of carrying data from one layer to the next.

Quote:
Problems:
- Major Re-Design of program and database is needed.

That's pretty much a given with everything about this idea.   

Quoting Kinematics:

Quote:
Hmm.  It may be possible to simplify, but my reasoning for the choice of layers was so that there was as little duplication as possible.  EG:

But this may cause more problems than it solves, for being overly complicated when having to search for the matching data-layers (at least for the initial creator of a profile).

Quote:
1) Every edition or (especially) localization of a film should reference the same base Content layer, so that all the 'original' information for that film only has to be entered once.

Agreed!
This about covers my idea of "Layer 1", except that I would put "localized data" into the second layer.

Quote:
2) Reprints or DVD vs Bluray versions, etc, may all use the same Rendition of a film.  We already know it's possible to have the exact same film printed on multiple Disc IDs; we shouldn't have to duplicate the effort of defining the rendition that was encoded on it.

While I see where you are coming from, this approach (esp. for BluRay -> DVD versions) would not work in PAL regions. At least the Running Time will always be different.
Another problem are (again at least for BluRays) completely different settings, menus, selectable Bonus content, etc, depending on the locality setting of your BluRay player. A good example is the quite common variant for BluRays with Japanese menus and Audio Tracks that only become available if the player is set to locality Japan.

Quote:
3) It's not uncommon for discs to get repackaged, such as once in singles, and another release as a box set.  Any given disc should have identical information, regardless of which UPC'd package it's sold in.

That's why "my" approach would contain the DiscID as secondary "unique" identifier.
This would, BTW, be exactly like the already implemented feature of DVDProfiler, put the disc into your ROM-Drive and if it's already in the database DVDProfiler offers to download the matching data.

Quote:
4) A Product layer being able to contain another Product intrinsically sets things up to handle box sets, or box sets of multiple shows which are themselves box sets, or other oddities that are awkward to handle in the current DVDP program.

Don't see why this would need a separate layer when two layers do suffice to address even several features on a single-sided disc.
But probably we mean the same thing, and I just don't get it.

Quote:
Possible nitpicky stuff I could see would be credit order.  Currently we list the cast in the order credited, but if the cast list is always derived from the original Content layer, any given Rendition (localizations, in particular) may have a different listing order.  That may not be as easy to work with in terms of carrying data from one layer to the next.

I'm not that much of a programmer,
but I'd handle this as Either/Or, with the user to choose which to show, either Original or localized Credits. In the GUI even both should easily be possible (e.g. by Tabs).

I've read this thread several times and although it sounds interesting...I have no idea what is being discussed!